Kagehitokiri

moved

Tennen

You're not the only one who is perplexed.

I've never smoked, and I never will. I absolutely hate being around smoke (but not necessarily the smokers), for many of the reasons upthread that I won't bother repeating. But I agree with Canarsie and others in favor of the forum.

First, Flyertalk has many, many different forums (fora?) for different purposes. I haven't even visited all of them, let alone posted in them. So one more forum won't make a difference to me, or to the users who will probably never visit it in the first place.

Second, I asked myself if Flyertalk was around pre-1999 (or in its current state back then), would FTers have benefited from a Nonsmoker forum? Absolutely. It would have helped disseminate information about places to avoid. The proposed smoking forum accomplishes that, just in reverse. If you're absolutely against smoking and being around smokers, the forum will actually help you! You'll know which hotels, restaurants, streets, markets, entertainment venues, etc. to stay clear of. Hell, I could've used it to figure out where my seat was in relation to the smoking section when it was still permitted onboard. Being within a few rows meant that the nonsmoking seat I had was worthless.

Third, for those who say "just go to xyz forum because that's where abc is," there's already tons of overlap. Mods move threads to/from different forums all the time! Don't forget that some newbies cross-post (FT rule violation, of course), because the topic is relevant in multiple forums. For example, an FTer is flying out of LAX on JL, getting to the airport from a Sheraton with a Hertz rental car. Do they go to the California forum? JAL? Oneworld? Starwood? Hertz? Perhaps all, or perhaps none. There's probably a dedicated TBIT thread somewhere too. My point - a dedicated forum for smokers gives people a place to start looking. If their questions are property/airline/location specific, the conversation can be moved or the poster can be guided.

Finally, teen smoking. Umm... are there any kids who don't know it's bad for your health? Even if they were ignorant, I hardly think a forum on a travel site would be the thing to push them to the "dark side" of smoking. They're much more likely to take their cues from movies, TV shows, video sites, and their family/friends.

^

philemer

Oppose

yeaboem

Support. ^

Non-smoker here, but I think people who do smoke would benefit from being able to share information on a forum such as this.

bdschobel

Explain?

Bruce

wallstbnkr

Approve, definitely a need

Dovster

My only problem with that is that with only two exceptions, any post asking where smoking is completely banned would have to be answered with hundreds of posts.

Just asking where in New York City you can find a hotel which does not allow smoking would require several hundred answers and in the rare exceptions where a hotel does permit it, it is restricted to a single floor.

Restaurants? In most cities there is no smoking allowed indoors. We certainly are not going to list every restaurant in a city.

The two exceptions I mentioned are casinos and restaurants with outdoor smoking areas. In Las Vegas, I don't know of a single casino which does not allow smoking (there might be some exceptions as I haven't been to every casino) and in Europe casinos tend to have separate smoking areas, generally on different floors.

Local residents, who are generally not familiar with hotels in their city, do tend to know about outdoor smoking at restaurants and the situation at the local casinos. You would probably be more apt to get specific information in a local forum than you would in the smokers forum.

I mentioned in another post that I wouldn't be able to tell you what hotels in Israel allow smoking as it has been at least a decade since I stayed at any hotel in the country. I do know that it is a minority of hotels.

On the other hand, as a local resident I know that any restaurant which has an outdoor area allows smoking in it -- despite an attempt a few years ago to have smoking banned at outdoor tables.

Kagehitokiri

many places continue to make it increasingly difficult to smoke. an argument that the existence of a forum on FT (little readership compared to rest of internet) will somehow outweigh local laws/regulations is not a strong / logical argument.

thats not even getting into demographics/etc of FT and smokers.

there are many threads on FT that 'glorify' alcohol consumption. so forum discussing where one can/cannot smoke is not only not 'glorifying' smoking, but is useful to nonsmokers. many have noted usefulness for nonsmokers. and many nonsmokers / anti-smoking support smoking forum from perspective of forum organization.

i dont recall any philosophical/etc argument against manufactured spend forum.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ge-thread.html >

updated 5 days later, not sure how many saw that update
(i searched and didnt see prior quote of post in TB forum)

one of the other TravelBuzz moderators has posted in support of smoking forum

if a smoking thread was allowed in OMNI, would obviously limit participation

bystander

Approve.

It is my opinion that not being able to smoke, and the stress it causes, can have a definite negative effect on passenger behaviour, which concerns all passengers - smokers and non-smokers alike.

FlyKiwi

I support it why make others lives difficult^

LaSenora

Perhaps we could set up an area for psychiatric counseling to see why in the world these people continue to want to commit suicide by tobacco.

Dovster

Thank you for a perfect example of why a Smokers Forum, where debate about smoking and attacks on smokers would not be allowed, is needed.

nsx

Some people may have difficulty separating the concept of helping smokers obtain information from the concept of supporting their decision to smoke. I don't have any problem making the distinction.

bdschobel

Neither do I. ^

Bruce

Dovster

That would be fine if getting the points from Starwood is his major concern. It is not, however, helpful to someone who is more concerned about finding a hotel which allows smoking.

I can foresee someone posting in the Smokers Forum "I will be spending a week in Miami in January. I would prefer a Starwood property but if there are none which allow smoking, which hotels do have smoking rooms?"

That kind of post is not apt to get an answer in the Starwood Forum if there are no Starwood properties he can go to.