Big deal.

Bottom line: No FF program, little demonstrated need on FlyerTalk. Frosting on the cake: the RyanAir experience sucks. And I mean really sucks. Not forum worthy, not fractional-forum worthy. And in my opinion, not operating certificate worthy,

NetJets is a profitable company. No NetJets forum because they don't have a FF program and there's not much NetJets discussion to merit a forum. And NetJets doesn't suck.

Spiff,


I am not saying that they are good at service or even that I would personally fly with them or EasyJet. I could have taken a $60 one-way Barcelona-Heathrow flight with EasyJet or Ryan: but I did not want to be subject to huge possible baggage fees (TV travel star Peter Greenburg got dinged for over $1,000 of excess baggage charges) so I booked on British for just over $100 and got free gin & tonic's and one free bag!!

But it looks as though many people don't think like me (Flyertalk as well) and only go for the lowest prices option. If you read many different forums, you can see that many of the airlines are doing much the same things: Delta and the Skymiles peso scam, downgrading their clubs, BA/AF/IB very high redemption charges...

Many of these fees and reduction of services are alive and well on "the majors" worldwide. While many on here (myself included) may dislike these airlines, they are very successful and are changing the face of their industry.


**Both Spirit & Ryan did have Business Class and were loosing money. Ryan also had meal service as well. To save the companies Ryan & Spirit chose to scrap business class (Spirit kept the seating, "Big Front Seat") and both also ended free drink and meal service. Spirit kept and abbreviated FF Plan, while Ryan scraped its flyer plan completely.

Flyertalk is not the right place for fractional jet ownership discussion, as it is backed on commercial aviation.

Spiff,

If we used as a qualification the following, "doesn't suck", what airline forum would survive?

1. Delta Skymiles program
2. New Delta Lounges
3. Delta upgrade percentages
4. US Airways Dividend Miles
5. United Mileage Plus
6. United Clubs
7. United upgrades
8. United Global First Class
9. The New America

The list goes on & on & on, while there is no end in sight. Why stop there, what about today's world does not suck, compared to the 1980s-90s? Everything from retail, banks, cable companies, etc., etc., etc., the list is endless.

Spiff, if you read much of what the forums are, it is about the diminishing nature of the services industries and how we are getting much less for more cash outlay.

The fact that RyanAir (and Spirit) both suck isn't the real issue for me. Like I said, that's a personal opinion.

The two real salient points are that they have little to no FF program and little discussion in their current and correct homes: the Budget Travel forum. Until both of those points change, that is where they belong.

Spiff,

There is much confusion on this (myself included) as I & others have never spent much time in the Budget Travel forum (I did not know it even existed), as many Flyertalker's search the "Other North American/South America & Europe" airline forums. Spirit has many continual questions and threads there, but few would consider airlines for the budget forum.

Its like putting the New American in the Dallas forum, Delta with Atlanta/Southern USA forum. I suppose that under this logic Singapore Airlines should be under the Luxury travel forum??

Would it make sense to create one new forum for LCC and budget airlines worldwide, pulling them out of all of the other regional carriers fora? Would that make their placement in FT less ambiguous?

Also, does the Budget Travel fora need more information in a sticky about what material belongs there or even a rework of its title? Budget Lodging, Tours, and Ground Transportation perhaps to make clear that this should not include budget airlines?

gkbiii, this and many other issues could be fixed if vBulletin had the ability to present the same thread or forum in two different places. The implementers would need to add a level of indirection, which could be costly. I don't think it's on the drawing board, but it should be.

1. No, primarily for the reasons Spiff mentions ("The two real salient points are that they have little to no FF program and little discussion in their current and correct homes"). As I posted up thread, there aren't an overwhelming # of posts re: them in the Other North & South American Frequent Flyer Programs and the Other European Frequent Flyer Programs, which is where the posts currently reside so I don't see a need to create a new forum for them.

2. If someone wants to ask a LCC question in the Budget Travel forum, then I don't have a problem w/ that. It's certainly related to budget travel. However, most discussions take place in the ON&SAFF & OEFF forums.

Cheers.

Actually, I asked the questions in hope that some of those who advocate change would reply. The Easyjet/Ryanair forums that are suggested in the thread title seem not to be a workable idea, but perhaps some other changes on FT could improve the situation. Perhaps if everything about budget and low cost carriers were placed in a single well-located forum, there would be enough traffic to make it work and satisfy people who are interested in this, even though these airlines tend not to offer much in the way of FF programs.

I think you mean forum, not single thread as no one likes mega-threads.

If you look at the threads in Budget Travel, it seems that LCC posts currently exist & the forum description handles it.


Budget Travel
Enjoy discussing low-cost travel (hostels, pensiones, camping, bus and train transport, LCCs, charter flights, inexpensive restaurants, etc.)

Cheers.

Actually, there's a very workable idea that requires no change:

Use the current, and correct forum: Budget Travel.

OOPS, you're right. What I meant to say would have the second "thread" say "forum."

Please remember FlyerTalk's guidelines / TOS - and protect both yourself as a poster and FlyerTalk by not violating copyright requirements.

If the page states something like "Copyright Ryanair Ltd. All rights reserved.", you may not duplicate that page's content in toto elsewhere.

Thanks!

JDiver
senior moderator

Gotta agree as the answer to every supposed need isn't IMHO to create a new forum.

The fact that Sharon and Spiff do not agree what the proper home for Ryanair/Easyjet (or other LCCs) is speaks volumes about the nature of the problem.

If those that you would expect to know FT better than the back of their hands disagree, what chance is there for us mere mortals to reliably identify where we are supposed to post?

The reality is that post on Ryanair and Easyjet are posted all over the place in European fora: BA, Flying Blue, OEFFP, Budget travel, related geographical fora such as UK&I, Europe,...

I have suggested to people in the past to post Easyjet-related questions in the Budget travel forum, only to see their questions left unanswered and less answered than in a far less appropriate place, like Flying Blue for instance. I'll think twice in the future about doing the same because it is ridiculous to direct people to post their questions in a forum which is supposed to be the proper forum if their questions are likely to elicit less useful answers than in a forum which is supposed not to be the proper one.

Now, perhaps that this would make Spiff very happy; perhaps nothing would delight him more than seeing questions about Ryanair/Easyjet unanswered since he seems to despise those airlines and ooze contempt about them through every pore of his body. I am not sure, though, that from perspective of the average FT reader, this is a particular helpful position. After all, FT is not supposed to be a beauty contest in which "good" airlines are rewarded with a forum and "bad" airlines are punished by making it difficult for FTers to find information about them.