Easyjet / Ryanair forums?
 

Hi!

I see there is a section for Loyalty programs with all manner of airlines listed. Of course, the big European low cost carriers are absent from here because they don't operate any sort of loyalty program.

However, it seems to me that the airline forums are as much about discussion of the airline, it's operations, routes, destinations, special fares etc as they are about the loyalty programs. Easyjet and Ryanair fly over 100 million passengers per year there are at least as many tips and tricks to get the cheapest fares / avoid charges with them as there are with even the most arcane frequent flyer program.

I know there is a seperate "Budget Travel" forum but perhaps you could give consideration to restructuring the forums somewhat and creating a dedicated forum for the two European Low Cost Carriers to help the frequent but unwary fliers avoid the hidden costs and get the best fares..

Keep up the good work! ^

I fully agree, there should be a Ryanair/Easyjet forum in the main grouping.

I agree.

There are plenty of posts about Ryanair and easyJet in other forums. Some of the more knowledgeable - and some of the most inaccurate - are in the British Airways forum for example, out of place and often marked OT (off topic).

A separate easyJet/Ryanair forum - or even one for each - would be a logical move, concentrating knowledge and experience in one/two forum/s.

thanks for the input and i'm full aware of these two airlines, having flown both and visited both to discuss any possible FFP interest.

I like to support the best practices we have here on FlyerTalk and that is to get the member-elected TalkBoard involved in assisting and even making decisions for new forums such as you recommend here. So, I'm going to forward this thread to the TalkBoard forum for additional input from members and as well to attract the attention of the TalkBoard for consideration.

Very much appreciate the idea and thanks for your support of FlyerTalk.

Cheers,
Randy

Budget Travel sounds like the right forum.

Ryanair is one of Europe's biggest airlines. It's the 8th largest in the world after DL/NW, SWA, AA, UA, LH/LX/OS/BD, AF/KL and CZ.

EasyJet and Ryanair are both bigger than British Airways in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_airlines

From http://www.ryanair.com/en/about : Ryanair are flying some BA services for BA during the current BA cabin crew dispute.

AFAIK, neither Ryanair nor Easyjet have a FFP.

Therefore, I am not quite sure what point there would be for a forum about Frequent Flyer Miles dedicated to them.

True, as pointed out in the first post.

Many (most?) forums in FT don't have a point/miles program yet are integral to FT. An easyJet and/or Ryanair forum could be just as useful to FTers.

It would be useful and logical to have the info currently spread across several forums all in one place.

Yes, I would agree that the Budget Travel is the appropriate forum. If the traffic increases, there may come a time when a separate forum is needed, just as the Accor A-Club forum was created from the Other Hotels forum. I don't feel we have reached that point just yet.

Info is not really spread in fora that much. It is true that there are quite a few FR threads in the BA forum but the creation of an FR forum would not really change that because:
1) BA regulars will keep on posting FR posts in the BA forum as users of the BA forum have a tendency to post topics on whatever subject in that forum, even when there are more appropriate fora on FT;
2) most of the BA threads on FR are a variation of the theme of "aren't BA a great airline and FR the pits?" or "Isn't Michael O'Leary the devil incarnate?" variety are are there to comfort the smugness of BA regulars. As such they belong to the BA forum and would feel strange and rather out of place in a dedicated forum.

OTOH, there are the occasional threads in the OEFFP forum that these can be moved to budget travel when needed. It is not as if it is a daily, occurence is it?

I agree with Spiff and Jouy31 that budget travel is an adequate home for these. An additional argument for keeping these within a common budget travel forum is that there are quite a few threads which cover both Easyjet and Ryanair, which could not fit easily into a dedicated forum to either airline.

Can you please explains to me more specific info for me? :confused: Do you want proposal to creating new forums? I am still aware of FR & Easyjet will be perfect opportunities to addition more new forums. It will be easy way to do it for our members. Let's the speculating about this one. It will be guaranteed can do it for our members to be approval.

Are the posts in the BA forum regarding Ryanair and easyJet moved to the Budget Travel forum, or are they allowed to stay there in the BA forum? {Moderation question removed by administrator}

Threads posted on the BA forum relating to Ryanair are routinely permitted a short airing on BA before moving on to Budget Travel (proviso that the discussion is of value to budget travellers) or News Stand. Much of the discussion generated are responses to controversial press releases by Ryanair's CEO, Michael O'Leary rather than the Ryanair travel experience per se.

Which it rarely is. :D

Here's where I see some potential. Ryanair is known for trying to fleece its passengers with fees. FTers could return the favor by pooling our knowledge of how to avoid being fleeced.

Such information would be highly airline-specific. Would there be enough to keep a forum alive? I doubt it.

How about someone start with a Wiki for each of these airlines, or at least for Ryanair? If the Wiki gains a loyal following, then a forum might not be far behind.

To be honest, there is not much variation between European LCCs on this. Their fee structures are pretty similar. There are of course variation of details (eg: the type of card you need to use nowadays to avoid Ryanair cc fees is different from the type of card you need to use with most other LCCs) but there is already discussion of that kind on the budget travel forum. More generally and outside FT, there is ample discussion of how to avoid fleecing by LCCs on UK consumer sites and forums such as mse.

One way or another, FT needs to become the number one source for that information.

uhh, why? This is debatable, so much so that it has in fact been debated many times on this forum. :) FT's strength, as a reference site, is on points and miles, not on travel in general. For instance, while there are hotel reviews on FT, nobody would seriously argue that FT is the #1 source for hotel reviews nor would it be a realistic objective for FT to become that. You have to know what your strengths are and FT's strengths are frequent flyer, stayer and renter programmes. While this should not preclude members from engaging in other travel-related discussions (as in the budget travel forum, for instance), I don't think that FT needs to aspire to become the #1 source for everything travel-related.

Agreed...

However, I will say that one measurement that I do use when I look at forum needs, especially the non-miles/points fora, is whether that need is being served better on other sites. If not, then, depending on the forum topic, I may feel that FT would be a good place for it to find a home.

With this particular topic, I could potentially see a need in the future if an FFP existed for these carriers and if there wasn't a Budget Travel forum or Other European Frequent Flyer Programs forum - but there is. And, the traffic doesn't warrant a stand-alone forum at this time, IMHO. They've got to have an FFP at the very least, IMHO, to be considered for a forum.

What about a stickied thread in the budget travel forum titled "Tips and strategies to avoid being fleeced by Ryanair, Easyjet and other European LCCs"? (ok, someone may come up with a better/shorter title).

That would be a matter for the forum mods rather than a TB issue.

Am I allowed to post here? If not delete me, if so, read on ;)

FlyerTalk is not just about "miles and points" programs. The front page of FT says,

Furthermore, anything that helps prevents OT posts is a good thing.

When I went on my honeymoon last year, I flew DL TATL, and both EZY and BA within Europe.

I flew EZY CDG-CIA, then flew BA FCO-LGW. I was miffed a month later when I saw I earned something like 210 miles on the FCO-LGW flight. Considering my EZY experience and cheaper fare, I said, in the thread something to the effect of, "If that's the case, I may as well fly EZY and save a few bucks."

Of course (in hindsight), I was seen as a troll, and the thread took on a life of its own.

I've been known to cause trouble ;) but I honestly would have chosen to post the story to an audience that would be more receptive to what I was saying if such a board were available.

Meaning, if there were an EZY board I could have been saved flamebait/troll accusations and mods would have been much happier :)

Many Many posts on the current forums are not about FF programmes. Easyjet and Ryanair, are two of the biggest airlines in Europe, to cast them into the Budget Travel doesn't recognise that fact. And if you just go on do they have a FF programme, then where do you stand with Flybe.... They have a FF programme, so perhaps they should get a board!!!!

Cheers Larry.

Did you describe your experience in Budget Travel? I am sure it would have been well-received there.

I see very little demand for a Flybe forum. Bob's Pretty Good Crop Duster is about to get a frequent flyer/sprayer program. Perhaps we should give them a board too? And airlines with no FFP should not have their own forums, especially when they already are a perfect fit for Budget Travel.

I would never in a million years have thought of posting in Budget Travel. I would, however, thought of posting in an EZY forum. I will let it rest on that note :)

I guess those poor EZY posts will have to find their own way to Budget Travel, because that is exactly what EasyJet is. Perhaps they can hitch a ride on a RyanAir post. ;)

I thought FR had a kind of frequent flyer programme through its affinity credit card? Or has that now stopped?

(it was a kind of pay for x flights on your credit card, get x flights free).

OK, couldn't resist. A few points, all in respect:

1. Buying reasonably priced plane tickets in itself doesn't make someone a budget traveler. I flew EasyJet between cities in Europe, but stayed at higher-end Marriotts. Is that really "Budget Travel" because I choose not to overpay for plane tickets by 500%? RyanAir perhaps is "Budget Travel", but EZY is no more "budget" than WN, FL, B6, etc. It's a normal airline flown by normal frequent flyers all the time.

2. What about when ORY ground crew went on strike last year and EZY flights were moved to CDG? You would think flyertalk.com would have been a nice place for me and others to be able to discuss and share status of EZY travel during the 3rd party strike, but it wasn't. Let me say this again: as a lurker, I could not rely on a web site called flyertalk.com for news on a work stoppage affecting the #3 carrier in Europe. Sure, it also affected AF, and I could have gone to the AF board, except they're not talking about EZY-specific issues on there. In such situations, I can promise you won't have a chance to tell exasperated lurkers to go to "Budget Travel", as they'd most likely think it was a board for coupon codes, fare sales, Greyhound buses and which hostels in Bora Bora have hot water.

3. The best reason for excluding these huge airlines is the lack of a FF program. IMHO and with due respect, I don't think that's close to a good enough reason to exclude them. Again, just my opinion.

4. It would be useful to create separate RyanAir and EasyJet forums, and I think usefulness is the main reason to add them. Making FT more useful for 110,000,000 annual pax to discuss tips, news and issues on a board specifically reserved for their airline of choice on a web site that calls itself "FlyerTalk" is hard to argue against.

5. Let's be blunt: this same message board has a "Politics and Religion" forum. Including the #2 and #3 airlines in Europe sans mileage programs is much less of a stretch.

Thanks for letting me state my opinion.

Do I detect a hint of snobbery in here, I always thought that was a British Trait!!!!

Maybe a little but that wasn't really the intention. My position really is that when it comes to Miles & Points, RyanAir, and EasyJet - there's not much to talk about.

Maybe. Maybe not.

In you opinion, how many of those 110,000,000 annual pax are FTers or will frequent FT?

For the sake of argument, RyanAir is ranked the 8th World's largest airline by scheduled passengers. There is no designated forum for the 7th largest airline on FT yet. By this line of reasoning from you, wouldn't TB vote on a new forum proposal/motion for China Southern Airlines before considering this current proposal? :p

IMHO, passenger load is not the biggest determinant factor w/r/t forum creation on FT.

BTW, Other Asian, Australian and South Pacific Frequent Flyer Programs Forum is currently the host forum for China Southern Airlines on FT.

EZY's slogan, which you can read right on their website frontpage, is that they are "Europe's leading low cost airline". It is a member of elfaa, the "European Low Fares Airline Association" together with Ryanair, flybe, wizzair, vueling, bmibaby, jet2, transavia, sverigeflyg, and norwegian. It very clearly sees itself and presents itself as an LCC, not as a full service carrier. And it is also generally regarded as such by the flying public, whether they use them or not. It may be a much superior airline to FR but it still is an LCC.

If the issue is one of visibility, as has been suggested by a couple of posters in this thread, perhaps the budget travel forum could be renamed the low fare carriers and budget travel forum? imo, it would not be an inappropriate title given that a substantial number of posts in the forum are about LCCs?

They did. It changed as they now have a new credit card partner, GE Money (in the UK). Current offer is 'Earn up to 5 bonus flights in your first year'.
http://www.ryanair.com/GE/?banner=R0...276&gemid1=276

EasyJet were contemplating something along the lines you suggest.Five useful points.

I don't think it truly matters how many current FTers fly are among that number. I mean, why would anyone be active in a message board that doesn't cater to them at all? This would be about attracting new users, not so much about serving existing ones.

Enter "Delta Skymiles" in Google. FlyerTalk.com comes up as the #9 result. All results above flyertalk are either Delta or American Express. That's crazy.


I'm picturing flyertalk.com coming up #3, #4 or #5 on Google searches for easyJet or RyanAir. You don't think that's a huge potential new market for FT?

Besides, who knows if it'll take off? What does it matter? I fly EZY in Europe and I'm very active on FT, and I'm sure there are others. There is really no risk involved. It's at least a worthwhile experiment. Give it a 6-month test run. If it doesn't work, retire the forum(s). Aren't there discontinued forums all over the place here?

To answer your question directly, I could be wrong but I would guess there are more English speakers who fly RyanAir/EZY than China Southern.

On the other hand, if people would use it, if it would make FT better, if it brings in more page views and ad revenue for the site and value for new and existing members, I'm all for adding a China Southern board as well. Why not?

Again: Southwest, Airtran, JetBlue, Frontier, Midwest, etc., etc., etc. are also all LCCs with their own forums.

I think you're saying it would diminish the FlyerTalk brand? I don't understand how having such boards would hurt FT; having WN, FL and B6 boards certainly haven't hurt FT.

I understand what you're saying. I think people post in budget forums for these airlines because there is currently no place else.

If you look at the DL, WN, AA, etc. forums, I would say less than half the threads are about FF programs -- they're about missed flights, complaints, a few compliments, deals, reviews, travel experiences, questions, etc. In other words, about the airlines themselves, not the loyalty programs. Why not have a child or sister section to "Airline Programs" called "Airlines without Mileage Programs"?

First things first. I know nothing about China Southern Airlines. It was just a good counter-example for an argument about passenger load in this case.

Secondly, the logic of passenger load and language preference (i.e. English speakers) doesn't hold too much water on FT (see the preliminary data in my next paragraph.)

The hard data on FT doesn't support your "conclusion."

I just used FT Search to compare "RyanAir" and "China Southern" in all fora on FT. The result may surprise you:

1. Using "RyanAir" as key word, I found 498 threads. When requesting "Show Results as Posts", there are currently 493 posts on FT that contain "RyanAir." (A bit odd since post number shouldn't be smaller than thread number but what can I say. It's FT Search. ;))

2. With key words of "China Southern", I found 497 FT threads. When using "Show Results as Posts", more than 500 posts mentioned "China Southern" on FT. Since FT search results cap at 500 hits, we don't know the actual number of posts for China Southern on FT. It could be 1000, 5000, or even 10K.

Not to mention China Southern (CZ) a member of the SkyTeam airline alliance.

To sum up:
Post Count: RyanAir (=493) vs. China Southern (>>500)
Thread Count: RyanAir (=498) vs. China Southern (=497)

So, what do these numbers tell us? It shows demand on FT, to say at least.

I am not necessarily against new forum for a deserving airline (or destination). I just think the supporters/advocates should do a better job to provide convincing data or sounder arguments that will cater to the core mission of FT. I would think that's the merits in the proposals that could win more support from TBers.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far ^

The idea of a Wiki was raised and if that was a success then a forum to follow. I like wikis but to my thinking, this is the opposite of how wikis are created. You can't ask questions on a wiki - firstly you have a discussion forum and then knowledgeable people contribute to FAQs/Stickies and then eventually a Wiki can be created.

Yes, there are other forums on the internet for RY/EZ. Does that mean that FlyerTalk should not have a forum too? It seems like a strange logic to me. Surely there is room for a high quality forum like Flyertalk to get in on the discussion?

A few people have pointed out that RY/EZ don't have a frequent flier program, but as I pointed out in my opening post - these forums are as much about the discussion of the airline as anything else.

A few people have commented that there is already a budget travel forum and there isn't much discussion of RY/EZ there. Just because people fly on LCCs doesn't mean they are budget travellers. A lot of people use LCCs for business or leisure because they fly to convienient airports or perhaps (shock horror) because they are a whole lot cheaper and just as good as the competition.

A lot of the posts which oppose the new forums sound a bit condescending to be blunt, a kind of "if you want to talk about THAT sort of flying :rolleyes: then turn right and go all the way to the back of the plane and talk about it down there". I kind of expected a bit of that though, I'm not too proud to say that I ride in the cheap seats - at 5 Euros all inclusive for a flight I'll ride in the jump seat if I have to. :)

As has been pointed out, more than 100,000,000 passengers per year fly Ryanair and easyJet. That's a lot of potential growth for Flyertalk. From a purely business point of view, it would cost very little to create the forums and increase your google rank - I can't see how it would do any harm. The LCC business model is growing fast, FT needs to move with the times.

"If you build it, they will come". ;)

Agreed 100% but was trying my best to be diplomatic. As great as FT is, this is the part of FT I cannot stand -- the sense of superiority over those who dare to be smart with their money.

There is no other legitimate reason to exclude major LCCs from FT.

Agreed. TB would be making a huge mistake if they didn't at least try this.

Again, with all due respect I don't think it's a legit comparison. China Southern is part of SkyTeam. This means it's discussed on the SkyTeam board, the DL board, the old NW board, the AF/KL board, the old CO board before they went *A... there is no such outlet currently for EZ/RA. We're talking about making one so they will also have >>500 threads.

I don't know how scientific it is but I tried a search on Google search for FT posts and got these results:

China Southern 553 results.

Ryanair 3,140 results.

easyJet 13,100 results. :eek:

Great find. I'd never have guessed this. That's astounding considering China Southern is in SkyTeam. You'd think people would have mentioned it in passing on the SkyTeam/SkyTeam airlines' boards by accident more often than the subjects of this thread. The fact it's apparently outnumbered six to 25 times, should say something.

As a user of FT, I don't give too hoots about the FT 'brand'. To me, this is an issue for IB not for FT users.
You have put forward as an argument that EZY, etc.. is just like any other airline. What I was doing was refuting that argument. Most European LCCs are NOT like legacy airlines and other full service carriers, something which is far less true of US LCCs. For instance, unlike full service carriers (and most US LCCs), most European LCCs (including Easyjet and Ryanair) are strictly point-to-point carriers, they do not interline, they have very different policies in case or irrops and, crucially for the current discussion they do not have an FFP. This is not true of all Euroepan LCCs. Air Berlin, for instance, although it is generally regarded as an LCC, has an FFP and is generally much closer to full service carriers than Easyjet or Ryanair. If there was a request for an Air Berlin forum, it seems to me that it would be an easier one to accommodate provided the traffic justified it (which is not the case, imo, at this stage).

Easyjet, however, is a different kettle of fish. I have nothing against Easyjet per se. In fact, I do fly Easyjet and am generally very happy with them. The question is not there.

A proof that Easyjet (or FR for that matter) is not just like any other airline on FT is that you could not create an Easyjet forum in the airlines programs section of FT since they do not have a program. You would have to create it under Travel and Dining (and, truth be told, if we were to go in that direction, a sub-forum of budget travel would seem to me the most obvious place).

I would not have an absolute categorical objection of principle to the creation of an Easyjet or Ryanair forum per se. But, since they do not have an FFP, they are "non-core" and, as such, subject to a somewhat higher threshold of justification than core forums similar to other non-core fora.

For now, it seems to me that budget travel fills the function of repository of discussions on Ryanair and Easyjet pretty well. It also seems to me that there is sufficient overlap in discussions of relevance to several LCCs for it to be a loss to fragment those discussions in separate fora rather than keeping them together in one common forum. It may well be that we end up in a situation where FR or EZY or any other airline outgrows BT. But we are not there yet, imo.

The only argument which, in my eyes, has a little bit more weight is the visibility issue (it would not occur to me to post issues relating to LCCs in budget travel) but that can be easily solved by slightly tweaking the name of the forum.