Moderator2

Welcome to Flyertalk. Please feel free to visit the Budget Travel forum to discuss current Easy Jet issues. The place you have posted your query is related to internal Flyertalk operational protocol:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/budget-travel-597/

aavmurphy

I'd like new forums for Ryanair, Easyjet, and the other euro low cost carriers.

But if you're not sure, how about changing the name of the "budget" forum to be "Budget including Ryanair, Easyjet, and the other Low Cost Carriers".

This way, people know where to post.

They can be very low cost, but, Ryanair especially, get up to lots of games with their fees, charges, flight promotions, luggage rules, etc.

Spiff

Are there miles/points to discuss in either of these programs? Are such rewards programs already being copiously discussed elsewhere on FlyerTalk?

If not, then there should be no forum.

nsx

Unless there is sufficient value to discussing how to evade the airline's attempt to scam you with sneaky fees. For RyanAir and Spirit, the frequent flier benefit is that you learn their scams and pay less than a newbie.

Spiff

That's what the Budget Travel Forum is all about. None (RyanAir, EasyJet, Spirit) deserves a separate forum.

gkbiiii

Spiff,

Spirit does have a FF program and I have used it for a free ticket from Panama to the USA. The airline does offer "Big Front Seat" and other options that make it something to look at. Being in the Miami Beach area, Spirit can be a good choice to expensive destinations in the Americas.

Spiff

Their FF program is terrible and there's very little discussion about Spirit in the Budget Travel forum.

Personally, I don't think they should even have an operating license.

However, there is still little to no demonstrated need for Spirit or any of the other budget carriers to have their own forum(s). Furthermore, there isn't much frequent flyer material to discuss.

gkbiiii

But, why not have a direct forum for the "Three+ Ultra-Low-Cost Carriers that span Europe & the Americas? @:-)

The budget travel section really does not fit airlines, thus all the others have their own forum.

SkiAdcock

The low cost carriers get covered in the Other North & South American Frequent Flyer Programs, and the Other European Frequent Flyer Programs forums.

Looking at those forums I don't see an overwhelming # of posts re: the low cost dominating the forums to the point that I see a need to create a new forum. Can't speak for other TB members, but that's my thought on the matter.

Cheers.

nsx

For your entertainment:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/budge...ttlefield.html

I have had no particular difficulty finding RyanAir info in the Budget Travel Forum. Just search on RyanAir (one word). On the other hand, finding the Budget Travel Forum is a bit difficult...

Spiff

Budget Travel covers these three budget airlines, none of which has an overwhelming number of posts.

Personally, each is so terrible/non-existent in the Frequent Flyer metric and so customer unfriendly that they don't even deserve to be licensed.

gkbiiii

Playing devils advocate:

I will not rehash our "spirited Spirit" conversation from last year, however I did find the history of RyanAir very interesting. Reading their history http://www.ryanair.com/en/about

can give all involved an insight to their business and success. Lets look at some key quotes from RyanAir about its history and why it is successful:

1990

"After three years of rapid growth in aircraft, routes and intense price competition with Aer Lingus and British Airways, Ryanair accumulates £20m in losses and goes through a substantial restructuring. The Ryan family invest a further £20m. in the company, and copying the Southwest Airlines low fares model the airline is re-launched under new management as Europe's first low fares airline. Ryanair now offers the lowest fares in every market, high frequency flights, moving to a single aircraft fleet type, scrapping free drinks and expensive meals on board but reducing the lowest fares from £99 to just £59 return"

<redacted>

2011

"Our traffic grew by 5% to 75.8m passengers with our average fare of just €45 and no fuel surcharges, despite a sharp increase in fuel costs."

"Our profits rose 25% to a record €503m despite higher oil prices and the global recession and we announced a planned €483m special dividend to shareholders."


Here is a great quote from 1993


"Ryanair launches its first new route for 5 years with daily flights from Dublin to Birmingham. The Irish Government warn us not to do it because it will "upset" Aer Lingus. We go ahead anyway..."

gkbiiii

So, it could be argued that Southwest (which does have a forum) along with Spirit, RyanAir, etc. are among the most successful airlines in history. A industry which has few success stories and many failures. Ryan along with Southwest/Spirit are true innovators of their industry and are the only recently profitable carriers (Europe/Americas). It should be noted that Southwest has been profitable every year since its inception.

I like airlines such as JetBlue/Virgin America and others that offer full service, but we should realize the success of their "Ultra-Low-Cost Carriers" shows that many in the public want to travel for the "least" possible cost. If people did not like these airlines, they would not make money, as no one would fly them.

nsx

That's absurd. Southwest's model puts employees first, then customers, then shareholders. RyanAir puts shareholders first, second, and third. Anything to make a quick buck.

Correction. Almost anything to make a quick buck. Eschewing fuel fees is good marketing and admirable.

"Best customer service"? Or is it best, worst, and only customer service on 436 specific routes that no other airline serves? Or is it "best" from the point of view of shareholders? The Air France ground staff is infamous, but they aren't compensated based on how many extra Euros they can extract from customers they "serve".

If RyanAir survives its fares will eventually need to cover costs without any revenue boost from ambush airport fees. Either the fees will be dropped or a higher and higher fraction of customers will learn how to avoid them. If the fees were intended as a temporary revenue source to bootstrap the company it might almost make sense to me. All except the fact that when you treat one customer unfairly, as judged by that customer, he tells 20 of his acquaintances.

Southwest's model reverses that rule. If you consistently treat the customer fairly when your competition does not, word of mouth will build inexorably in your favor. Southwest operates like Costco: Good quality at a fair price. RyanAir operates like a marginal used car dealer: Buyer beware.

I wouldn't be surprised to see RyanAir attempt to transition its model to no-fees when fee income drops far enough at RyanAir and more importantly at its competitors. It's even conceivable that raising fees to extortionate levels is designed to accelerate this process: leading competitors to match fees at levels which lose revenue. But who knows what's inside the mind of a used car dealer?

gkbiiii

NSX,

1. It could be argued that Ryan is by far, one of the most successful Irish business, in the history of the Irish Republic.

2. Furthermore, the numbers suggest that its employees are among the most productive in the industry.

3. I disagree with you about how Ryan treats/pays its employees from the very beginning as a stock company,

"All of Ryanair's employees receive shares as part of the flotation process and at the close of the first days trading, Ryanair's employees are sitting on over €100m. worth of shares. "

I believe this could be very true love/hate them:

RyanAir was... voted the 'Best Managed National Airline' in the world by the prestigious International Aviation Week magazine." (1998)

Since 1998 the airline has grown (like Spirit) while most of the "Legacy Carriers" have had difficult times.