SWISS / Edelweiss New routes and changes
Dec 25, 2019, 1:44 am
#241
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX SEN & WoH Globalist
Posts: 274
I’ve thought the latest order of 20 A350 and 20 B787 is mainly to replace four-engine aircrafts of the LH group?
If you look at the age of their current A330 fleet, which is between 6.7 and 10.7 years only, I think this batch of planes with delivery from 2022 until 2027 comes too early for LX.
If you look at the age of their current A330 fleet, which is between 6.7 and 10.7 years only, I think this batch of planes with delivery from 2022 until 2027 comes too early for LX.
Dec 25, 2019, 4:31 am
#242
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: LH SENATOR
Posts: 1,040
One plane wouldn't do it. An ICN rotation can't sadly be done in one day. But maybe with the arrival of the A350s they might use the first to expand.
I really hope you are wrong on your guess. I would hate to have LX 787s. (I hate the 787 windows). In contrary to your guess I think 787s will go to OS and LH to replace the 343s in FRA. LX will get A350s to replace the 330s and 340s.
That is my guess (and hope).
For LX the 787 would be too small and represent a downgrade in capacity compared to the A330.
I've spoken with several pilots of LX and all when asked to chose between 787 and 350s chose the 350. (and that included some 777 pilots as well!). Obviously not entirely representative, but I still found it interesting nonetheless.
I really hope you are wrong on your guess. I would hate to have LX 787s. (I hate the 787 windows). In contrary to your guess I think 787s will go to OS and LH to replace the 343s in FRA. LX will get A350s to replace the 330s and 340s.
That is my guess (and hope).
For LX the 787 would be too small and represent a downgrade in capacity compared to the A330.
I've spoken with several pilots of LX and all when asked to chose between 787 and 350s chose the 350. (and that included some 777 pilots as well!). Obviously not entirely representative, but I still found it interesting nonetheless.
It's already bad enough that we will be stuck with these loud B77W's for some time. I also really hope that the A333's and A343's + dreaming at some point the B77W's to be replaced with A350's 900 and 1000. However if LX decides to keep the A333's for 5 years + they also will need to invest into the cabin.
Dec 29, 2019, 7:54 am
#243
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,186
CH & IN are updating their bilaterals...
https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRele...x?relid=196084
Which is strange since LX is only using 7 of the available 16 weekly flights. Bilaterals (page 64)
Maybe they want to add WK into the mix to fly to some sun & sand destination?
https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRele...x?relid=196084
The Union Cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi has approved the signing of the Protocol to amend the Agreement between the Swiss Federal Council and the Government of India related to air services and to exchange Diplomatic Notes with Switzerland for bringing the amendments in the Air Services Agreement into force as per Article 17 thereof.
The amendments in the Air Services Agreement between India and Switzerland will bring it in tune with the developments in the civil aviation sector. It will provide enabling environment for enhanced and seamless connectivity while providing commercial opportunities to the carriers of both the sides ensuring greater safety and security.
The amendments in the Air Services Agreement between India and Switzerland will bring it in tune with the developments in the civil aviation sector. It will provide enabling environment for enhanced and seamless connectivity while providing commercial opportunities to the carriers of both the sides ensuring greater safety and security.
Maybe they want to add WK into the mix to fly to some sun & sand destination?
Dec 29, 2019, 8:40 am
#244
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,153
CH & IN are updating their bilaterals...
https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRele...x?relid=196084
Which is strange since LX is only using 7 of the available 16 weekly flights. Bilaterals (page 64)
Maybe they want to add WK into the mix to fly to some sun & sand destination?
https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRele...x?relid=196084
Which is strange since LX is only using 7 of the available 16 weekly flights. Bilaterals (page 64)
Maybe they want to add WK into the mix to fly to some sun & sand destination?
Also LX is using 14 of the 16 weekly flights: 7x BOM and 7x DEL.
Also I like how up to date that document is the Indian government provides (It obviously doesn't have any date stamp): Operating Equipment for 7 of these 16 flights: 747C, Md-11 (HA!) and the A340 seems to have been included as Swiss had those on order at this time. Same I would apply for the 777 by Air India.
Still funny how all of the flights by LX are operated by A330s, which I guess is nearly the same thing as A340s, but from a government if they have a tab for required aircraft type I'd expect it to be kept accurate...
Germany btw, is allowed to use between 42 and 50 weekly flights to India. Times two, because India is allowed to use the same amount to Germany.
Checking out some other countries: Austrian Airlines seems only to be allowed to use A330s or A340s, none of which they have anymore. Apparently there are 4 flights approved to Brazil but only on 747s?! Flights to Romania are expected to be operated by A310s. Hungary has 1(!) weekly flight allowed to be operated by B707s and the US has unlimited flights allowed by NWA
Last edited by Nick Art; Dec 29, 2019 at 8:59 am
Dec 29, 2019, 3:14 pm
#245
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
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The pdf is just a list of current bilateral agreements. If Romania or Brazil have an agreement it's recorded there. Lufthansa bought some of the rights Air India has to fly more than 55 times as allowed by the bilateral. Austrian had a similar deal when they had a 5-7x weekly to India. Now AI operates the route and OS codeshares.
The press release of the cabinet is filled with legal phrases that reflect the legal framework that allow the executive to negotiate agreements with other states without ratification of the legislature.
The press release of the cabinet is filled with legal phrases that reflect the legal framework that allow the executive to negotiate agreements with other states without ratification of the legislature.
Jan 22, 2020, 3:18 am
#247
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
"to offer better timing..." I guess its a lot cheaper to move to PKX than to keep the slut to PEK. If you have to transfer within China there is very few Staralliance connections at this time to PKX. I am living in the north east and at this point no airline at all flies to PKX.. and no plans for the summer schedule either.. I guess I have to take my business elsewhere.. bad decision in my humble opinion
Jan 22, 2020, 3:23 am
#248
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,153
"to offer better timing..." I guess its a lot cheaper to move to PKX than to keep the slut to PEK. If you have to transfer within China there is very few Staralliance connections at this time to PKX. I am living in the north east and at this point no airline at all flies to PKX.. and no plans for the summer schedule either.. I guess I have to take my business elsewhere.. bad decision in my humble opinion
I agree that the lack of uniformity of the *A airlines regarding to which airport they fly to is annoying.
Last edited by Nick Art; Jan 22, 2020 at 3:30 am
Jan 22, 2020, 3:36 am
#249
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,186
The slot OS, LO and LX got at PEK was rather oddly timed, so the move to PKX offers better timings. I don't think the CA connecting traffic plays a big role in timing.
Jan 22, 2020, 4:55 am
#250
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Is it really? My understanding was that CA stayed at PEK and runs its hub there, with PKX being merely a spoke or a focus city to use terms of US network carriers. MU on the other hand moves to PKX where it won't be cmpeting for capacity with CA. Could be wrong though.
Last edited by San Gottardo; Jan 22, 2020 at 5:03 am
Jan 22, 2020, 5:16 am
#251
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,186
The CAAC has split the CN carriers evenly between PEK and PKX: the oneworld or skyteam carriers that were previously in the very crappy terminals on the other side all move to PKX. What was in T3 pretty much stays in PEK. Which is confusing why they are still stingy on slots in PEK. CA will definitely keep their operations in PEK T3.
Jan 22, 2020, 7:11 am
#252
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,153
I suspect the same. BJS has enough O&D traffic for them to think less about connections on CA and instead more about the timings of the flight, and connections in Zurich. Also, I'd suppose that connections can still happen through PVG, even though that might be back-tracking for some, and the new ICN flight may also help as ICN is well connected to many parts of PRC.
Is it really? My understanding was that CA stayed at PEK and runs its hub there, with PKX being merely a spoke or a focus city to use terms of US network carriers. MU on the other hand moves to PKX where it won't be cmpeting for capacity with CA. Could be wrong though.
Is it really? My understanding was that CA stayed at PEK and runs its hub there, with PKX being merely a spoke or a focus city to use terms of US network carriers. MU on the other hand moves to PKX where it won't be cmpeting for capacity with CA. Could be wrong though.
And as far as I know the ICN flight won't happen that soon :/
The CAAC has split the CN carriers evenly between PEK and PKX: the oneworld or skyteam carriers that were previously in the very crappy terminals on the other side all move to PKX. What was in T3 pretty much stays in PEK. Which is confusing why they are still stingy on slots in PEK. CA will definitely keep their operations in PEK T3.
Air China currently has 10 so routes from PKX and honestly, if Air China does not shift most of their traffic I really don't understand why Swiss would move airports. Surely conenction traffic wasn't that low? What other reason would there be? Just better cost and timing? At the expense of pretty much all connection traffic?
Jan 22, 2020, 7:15 am
#253
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,186
Timing... the 6am departure to Europe was a major block. The departure times for OS/LO/LX from PEK (and PVG) is a deal killer for many, I always saw P availability on those flights when I looked.
Jan 22, 2020, 1:51 pm
#254
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: LH SENATOR
Posts: 1,040
Not to forget the new timings of the PEKING flights means that they gained a popular slot in ZRH during the lunch departure wave, hence we should expect somethng there as well. Given that no further long haul capacity is in place maybe something on the short to medium haul.
Jan 22, 2020, 3:39 pm
#255
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GVA-SIN-CDG-ICN
Programs: LX/LH SENATOR AF/KL FLYING BLUE GOLD
Posts: 82
