Can anyone buy an extra seat or just COS?
Jul 9, 2019, 7:43 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Arizona
Programs: Southwest, US Airways, Hilton Marriott
Posts: 32
Just as all airlines have size charts for carry on luggage, so too should there be size charts for the passengers. I once complained to SWA about allowing an oversized passenger sit next to me. She was so fat that her fat roll was over the armrest and my shirt was soaked from her sweat. I sent them a note along with in flight pictures and they sent me a credit for my full fare. That, however, doesn’t fix the problem. A passenger size box will fit both comfort and weight/balance issues instantly.
Jul 9, 2019, 9:16 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,234
BA allows any passenger to buy a “comfort seat” next to them, at the same price as the paid for seat but with no taxes applied. On many short haul flights this is good value. It can only be booked on the phone. I do it through the Gold line. It works well...even in em exit seats.
I call 3 seats for 2 pax the “poor man’s first class” as it’s often significantly cheaper than 2 F seats. We do this somewhat often, particularly on 4-5+ hr flights.
But we recently avoided WN because I was unclear whether we’d be allowed to both preboard to grab the whole row. I don’t care about the refund of the he EXST. My husband probably could qualify as COS, at 6’3” and close to ~290lbs, but he can put armrests down and almost never needs a seatbelt extender (though exit rows or bulkheads with fixed armrests with tray tables in them can sometimes be a problem.) Me, I’d have to measure my shoulder width but it could conceivably be an issue too.
I wish there was a little more clarity and/or flexibility.
Jul 9, 2019, 10:03 am
#35
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 24
I sat next to a fellow WN pax one time that had purchased an extra seat for himself (he being quite large, but not a COS). Says as a rule he 100% always buys the extra seat. When the plane was fully loaded, there was a young lady without a seat. Seems the FA counted empty seats and allowed the GA to put a standby pax on. They sat her in between us (poor lady). The feller didn't seem to mind one bit that the seat he paid for was being used by another paying pax. They never mentioned for a second refunding his seat and he could have cared less as he travels on company funds.
Jul 9, 2019, 11:42 am
#36
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Just as all airlines have size charts for carry on luggage, so too should there be size charts for the passengers. I once complained to SWA about allowing an oversized passenger sit next to me. She was so fat that her fat roll was over the armrest and my shirt was soaked from her sweat. I sent them a note along with in flight pictures and they sent me a credit for my full fare. That, however, doesn’t fix the problem. A passenger size box will fit both comfort and weight/balance issues instantly.
Jul 9, 2019, 11:57 am
#37
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AA, IHG PLM AMB
Posts: 25
+1 to being rejected one of the times that I purchased a COS seat.
The time in question was out of FLL and I approached the desk to obtain a stroller tag for my son, the GA obliged and then added that they went ahead and canceled my COS seat because I didn't need it. Discussion ensured where I pointed out their stated policy and when they indicated that they determined I didn't meet the policy I asked if they wanted to measure my shoulders to see that they very clearly exceeded the seat and seat rest width(Physically, I am in the same situation as WillCAD). The GA proceed to pull a DYKWIA move to call the SOD and tell them that I threatened them. The SOD moved the conversation to another area where they backed the GA call, saying they have the ability to override the policy at their discretion because if everyone who qualified for the COS seat took it they would not be able to sell enough seats even though they agreed that it would not be comfortable for them to sit next to me and have me bumping their shoulders the whole flight. At that point I knew I would not be able to get the seat back but was at least encouraged that they admitted that they were not following the policy. I told them they should really take that up with corporate not me.
When I took it up with customer service to ensure I would be getting my refund they indicated they would pass the feedback on to the SM, however that situation has contributed to me carefully examining my excess WN spend and the seat widths for those airlines and flights that I fly. It has also had me reconsider trying to help the GA out ahead of time by getting my stroller tags or anything else done at the desk since it could be used against me again. The COS policy is needed(maybe not the refund part) but will increasing come under pressure with seat and passenger size going in different directions.
To the OP I doubt they will extend the ability to purchase an extra seat to those who are not COS because those most likely to plan that far ahead will most likely purchase two seats at rates that are below what WN would like to see. WN would rather keep additional seats open closer to departure so they can get additional profit from them, that looks better than charging you a fee on top of your 2nd seat price to recoup the lost profit.
The time in question was out of FLL and I approached the desk to obtain a stroller tag for my son, the GA obliged and then added that they went ahead and canceled my COS seat because I didn't need it. Discussion ensured where I pointed out their stated policy and when they indicated that they determined I didn't meet the policy I asked if they wanted to measure my shoulders to see that they very clearly exceeded the seat and seat rest width(Physically, I am in the same situation as WillCAD). The GA proceed to pull a DYKWIA move to call the SOD and tell them that I threatened them. The SOD moved the conversation to another area where they backed the GA call, saying they have the ability to override the policy at their discretion because if everyone who qualified for the COS seat took it they would not be able to sell enough seats even though they agreed that it would not be comfortable for them to sit next to me and have me bumping their shoulders the whole flight. At that point I knew I would not be able to get the seat back but was at least encouraged that they admitted that they were not following the policy. I told them they should really take that up with corporate not me.
When I took it up with customer service to ensure I would be getting my refund they indicated they would pass the feedback on to the SM, however that situation has contributed to me carefully examining my excess WN spend and the seat widths for those airlines and flights that I fly. It has also had me reconsider trying to help the GA out ahead of time by getting my stroller tags or anything else done at the desk since it could be used against me again. The COS policy is needed(maybe not the refund part) but will increasing come under pressure with seat and passenger size going in different directions.
To the OP I doubt they will extend the ability to purchase an extra seat to those who are not COS because those most likely to plan that far ahead will most likely purchase two seats at rates that are below what WN would like to see. WN would rather keep additional seats open closer to departure so they can get additional profit from them, that looks better than charging you a fee on top of your 2nd seat price to recoup the lost profit.
Jul 9, 2019, 11:59 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 75
I would not endorse a passenger sizing device since it seems like unnecessary humiliation.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
Jul 9, 2019, 12:55 pm
#39
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
I would not endorse a passenger sizing device since it seems like unnecessary humiliation.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
Jul 9, 2019, 5:29 pm
#41
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kelowna Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, HHonors Diamond, BonVoy Gold, AAdvantage, IHG Priority Club, BA EC, AS MVP
Posts: 110
An interesting discussion. I tend to believe that if a passenger wants to purchase a second seat for any reason they should be allowed to do so but not to be eligible for a refund.
For those who suggest the airline will lose money please remember that the cost of transport is the weight transported so that all of the second seat price is profit if the flight is not totally full or still a good deal for the airline as their "loss" would be the difference between the second seat fare less the purchase price for another passenger less the expense of transporting the extra weight. For example lets assume the second seat cost $100. The cost another customer maybe $150 but the cost of travel (for the weight of the new passenger) is $75. For selling the extra seat they get $100. For selling it to another passenger they get $150 - cost of transport $75 = $75. So they could easily make more money by selling two seats to each passenger. (This is a rather simplistic calculation but shows the airline really doesn't lose a lot to provide extra comfort).
For those who suggest the airline will lose money please remember that the cost of transport is the weight transported so that all of the second seat price is profit if the flight is not totally full or still a good deal for the airline as their "loss" would be the difference between the second seat fare less the purchase price for another passenger less the expense of transporting the extra weight. For example lets assume the second seat cost $100. The cost another customer maybe $150 but the cost of travel (for the weight of the new passenger) is $75. For selling the extra seat they get $100. For selling it to another passenger they get $150 - cost of transport $75 = $75. So they could easily make more money by selling two seats to each passenger. (This is a rather simplistic calculation but shows the airline really doesn't lose a lot to provide extra comfort).
Jul 10, 2019, 5:01 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Just as all airlines have size charts for carry on luggage, so too should there be size charts for the passengers. I once complained to SWA about allowing an oversized passenger sit next to me. She was so fat that her fat roll was over the armrest and my shirt was soaked from her sweat. I sent them a note along with in flight pictures and they sent me a credit for my full fare. That, however, doesn’t fix the problem. A passenger size box will fit both comfort and weight/balance issues instantly.
Your story illustrates the real problem - rules are not properly (or consistently) enforced by the flight and ground crews. The woman who crammed herself into the seat next to you and infringed upon your seat should have been deplaned rather than allowing her to steal space that you paid for. The problem in that situation was that A) the pax didn't care that she was stealing your seat, and B) the flight crew didn't care enough to follow their employer's rules and deplane the pax who was infringing on your seat.
I have long lobbied for passenger sizers. Simply place two poles 17 inches apart. If you cannot walk through without touching both sides, you need to buy a second seat. I also believe it would be totally reasonable to charge passengers by the pound (even though I would personally suffer from this pricing strategy). If you ship any item by any means, the price is always based on weight. This is completely logical, because it costs more to transport heavier items. We often hear stories about airlines that saved thousands of dollars by eliminating olives for martinis, double-side printing, and other minor weight reduction measures. Yet, they continue to charge the same fare for a 50-pound child and a 400-pound behemoth. The larger person should pay more, and she should also get a wider seat. Many international flights offer a true premium economy, which is a nice compromise between business class and sardine class. Why is this not offered on domestic flights?
Aircraft tickets are sold by volume, not weight. Selling tickets to passengers in advance whose weight is variable is an untenable position for the airlines - you'd either pay in advance and settle up if you weigh more or less at time of boarding, or you'd pay after weigh-in. Either way, you'd have so much trouble weighing pax and settling the bills that it makes a lot more sense to sell by volume, not weight.
Besides, the issue at hand is not weight, it's size. Someone who weighs 250lb could be taller than they are wide, and fit in the seat with the armrest down (their knees might be in their chin, though). Meanwhile, a shorter person who is 250lb might not be able to touch the floor with their feet but might spill into the seat next to them or need an extender.
Personally, I couldn't care less what someone weighs, as long as they don't infringe on someone else's seat.
I would not endorse a passenger sizing device since it seems like unnecessary humiliation.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
Weighing somebody when you scan your ticket to board, on the other hand, could be done discreetly, and it would also be an incentive to not bring everything you own with you in your carryon, speeding up the boarding process.
To be fair it could be a discount applied for how far under a "standard" passenger+carryon weight, say 150 kg.
I'll repeat once again - every aircraft is already equipped with passenger sizers, in the form of the seats. If you don't fit, you buy a second seat, or you get deplaned.
All that is needed is proper, consistent enforcement of policy by airline employees. With respect and discretion, of course.
I just wish people would stop behaving so childishly when it comes to this issue. If you're fat, you know it, and everyone who sees you knows it, so own up to it and deal with the consequences. If you see someone who is fat, don't shame, mock, taunt, or belittle them; let them live their lives and you live yours, in peace.
Last edited by WillCAD; Jul 10, 2019 at 5:08 am