Proudelitist

No. This is mathematically incorrect.

Seat saving impacts every person after the saver's BP and before the savee's BP. Even if they don't know it. That said, there is nothing saying that only ONE passenger wants ONE specific seat...there could be a dozen who have their eye on a specific seat who have more right to it than the savee.

Proudelitist

LOL!! Really? Nobody buys a ticket to stand in line. They buy a seat on a plane. Don't insult the intelligence of this board by posting willfully obtuse and strectched rationalizations like that.

I shouldn't have to explain this, but in WN's system, the better your position in line, the better your seat choices. THAT is what is being sold. THAT is what they CLAIM. If you doubt this, look at their ad. I quote:

"Guaranteed A1-15 boarding

Be one of the first to board with priority boarding. Pick the seat you want and have room for your carryon bags."


https://www.southwest.com/businessselect/

Or the ad for EBCI, and I quote:

"While EarlyBird Check-In doesn't guarantee an A boarding position, it improves your seat selection options to help you get your favorite seat."

https://www.southwest.com/html/gener...eckin_faq.html

rickg523

And according to conventional airlines, you're not buying a specific seat in an airplane even when they sell you one. You're not buying a place in a particular cabin, even when you pay the fare. You're not even buying a particular route or stopover. You're buying transport from A to B - that's guaranteed - with a bunch of maybes attached. That's what WN sells you as well, only with even less ancillary items. All they sell you is transport and a place in the boarding line and a seat somewhere - nowhere specific (same as any airline really) - on a plane to where you're going. Leaving sometime, not necessarily when scheduled.
If your complaint is that Southwest's advertising is hyperbolic in its claims of benefit accrued by participating in one of its programs, well... Okay, you're right. It's called advertising. False advertising is redundant.
But if you're saying that you've been actually misled into believing that if you have position A1 you're boarding an empty plane then ​​​​​​I accuse you of being obtuse for the sake of argument. It seems clear to me that seating location is an important feature of flying for you and again I say WN isn't a good choice for you. Similarly, it's important to me that premium cabins on long haul flights are well provisioned, even over provisioned. And I stopped flying BA four years ago after experiencing repeated failures in this regard. Even though they have very convenient schedules for my travel. Courses for horses. I don't even notice seat savers when I board a Southwest flight. I'm looking for an aisle seat in an empty row.

rsteinmetz70112

This argument is incorrect mathematically and otherwise. Each person who selects or saves a seat changes the options available for every later person. It also effects behavior. If I (a large man) select an aisle seat, that makes the window seat on that row less desirable for many people. If I desire my companion boarding later to sit next to me my selecting the aisle seat makes it more likely that the middle seat will remain open. Some people will naturally decide to select other seats. If no one tried to sit in that middle seat then my selection has affected a lot of people and a lot of people are affected by their subsequent selections. My desire for my companion to sit next to me affected no one directly. No one may have tried to sit in the seat adjacent to me. If someone asks if the middle seat or the remaining seats in the row are available and I say "my companions is taking the middle seat the window seat is available". A passenger may move on in hopes of finding a situation where the middle seat is more likely to remain open. If that passenger moves on and finds another equivalent seat, their choice affects those boarding later. The seats are largely fungible, that is one aisle seat has little or no inherent advantage over another aisle seat, Pretending each seat is unique is not sensible. However a particular seat may become more desirable based on teh previous choices made by other passengers. Do you want to sit between two bigh hairy guys, or next to a woman with a lap child to name a couple of possibilities. In an earlier comment is was proposed that seat saving only occurs when another passenger is told that a specific seat unavailable. If no one enquirers then no seat saving has occurred regardless of the intent of the person occupying a seat. If that is the case then placing personal objects on a seat is not "seat saving" as it merely discourages later passengers from selecting that seat as would other behaviors such a feinting illness, or an unpleasant attitude.

justhere

Well, yes. If you are C22, it improves your seat selection versus the person who is C23. You seem to have fallen for WN's marketing trick.

nsx

Proudelitist

We are not talking about regular airlines. We are talking about your claim that WN is not selling better BPs for a better shot at the seats. Don't muddy the waters.

Anyone who wants transport from A to B can buy a ticket. You don't need EBCI or BS or A-List. Those are value-added incentives. The value added being, as WN's own advertising states, is that it "improves your seat selection options".

And when someone saves a seat, they reduce that.

This isn't rocket science. I am right, you are wrong and it tastes terrible in your mouth, hence your increasing grasping at cobwebs like questioning the source of the evidence presented..WN itself..by suggesting "false advertising". I guess it's easier to fight than to realign your beliefs no matter how strong the evidence.

Proudelitist

Each seat taken out of the equation is a reduction in options. Yes, I get that. But the fact that options are reduced by other means doesn't change the fact that saving seats does too.

If WN sells me a value added incentive, telling me that I get a better shot at seats, but refuses to do anything to control the controlable issue of seat saving, they are not protecting the incentives.

justhere

Nice.
The problem is you are seeing this as black and white. You are even taking WN's advertising as gospel and in a very literal sense. In reality this is much closer to chaos theory than it is to linear mathematics. There are simply too many variables to unequivocally state that a saved seat causes everyone behind to suffer a devaluation.

Kevin AA

Apparently some people need to understand probability theory.

If the probability that a saved seat results in n passengers being shooed away, out of m passengers who board after you but before your companion, then the probability that any one passenger gets screwed over by your selfish actions is n/m. The only way that can have NO effect is for n is be zero. The only way to do that is to imagine that you save the seat but take no actions on it, like putting a bag on the seat, or telling people that the seat is saved. Even if n=1 and m=50, that is still a negative impact.

We know that n>=0, and we know that m>0 (if m=0 it means your companion boards with you and then this seat-saving nonsense is not applicable). It is mathematically impossible for n/m to be less than 0 (that would be a net positive for other passengers). There is absolutely no doubt that seat saving has a negative effect on other passengers, except in the unlikely event that n=0. But you don't know that n will be 0 until your companion boards. If you would just stfu and let your companion board and let other people in front of your companion sit where they want, then fine, that's not seat saving. n/m=0. Zero effect.

Proudelitist

What variables?

If I am A30 with 25 dollars given for EBCI, and A20 holds a seat for C30, I lose out on at least one option. That chips away at the value of EBCI and functionally gives it to C30, who by proxy boards ahead of me.

Cledaybuck

Dean1953

justhere

You've done a marvelous job of describing how to calculate a percentage. That's not probability theory. You could turn this into a probability problem but the sample size isn't really large enough. And even then, what you would end up with is a probability number that someone wants a seat that someone is saving. What you won't have is whether they are affected by it or not. Your explanation has a built in bias that everyone dislikes seat saving and that they care about it. You have no way of knowing that. So congrats if you can figure out the true probability of someone wanting a seat that is saved. That number, somewhere between 0 and 1, and $0.99 will get you a big gulp at Circle K.
What variables?? Oh you know, those funny looking things that are big bags of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Or more commonly known as people. Not everyone cares that some seats are saved. So each flight is going to generally be different in terms of how many people are truly affected by any seat saving. The people are the variables. As I said, to say unequivocally that a saved seat causes everyone behind to suffer a devaluation has too many variables to be true. Some people may suffer a devaluation but some may not.

Simple example: A15 boards, sits in a window, and put his jacket on the middle seat. A16 boards and hopes that his companion at B3, who bought EBCI, is able to sit with him but wouldn't dream of saving a seat. A17 through B2 boards and for whatever weird reason a couple of them ask to sit next to A15 (oh I forgot, A15 is Mr. GQ so that's why people want to sit next to him, but I digress). Anyway, A15 says he's saving the middle for his Victoria's Secret model companion. Some of them care, some don't but they find other seats. None of them ask A16 if they can sit next to him. He now has an inferiority complex but with the money he saved by not paying for EBCI on previous flights he can afford another therapy session. Anywho, at this point (oh and he has some drink coupons so he can drown his sorrows) at this point his companion boards at B3 and sits next to him.

So B3 wasn't affected in any way, shape, or form, by A15 who saved a seat.

The moral of the story is don't wear your Victoria's Secret underwear unless you have a drink coupon and a therapist on speed dial. No, wait. That was a different story. Moral of this story is that not everyone is affected by seat saving. Some people just don't give a rat's a$$ about it.

NoStressHere

So true.

There is no policy. But, some folks want to beat it to death, over and over and over and over.

Southwest continues to be the most flown domestic airline, but too many folks seem to miss that fact.