LegalTender

When they say, "I'm not moving that bag," tell them you once killed a man with a paperclip.

And stow something in the seatback.

Proudelitist

It may not have an effect on THAT passenger, but it does on everyone whose BP is higher than the passenger the seat was being saved for. Seat saving doesn't just impact one passenger, it impacts entire groups depending on the range between the saver and the savee, and everyone ahead of the savee. Everyone in that range loses 1 option.

Now, in your example with your wife, she wasn't actually saving the seat if she didn't try to prevent anyone from sitting there. She was merely hoping it would remain empty. The question is, what would she have done if someone tried?

There may have been a couple with a higher BP than you that wanted the LUV seats, and she effectively stopped that. Now, if you think that was her right because she had A20 and they had A23 and 24, you would be right. It's first come first served. But that applies to you also. If I at A29 took the other seat beside your wife, despite her protests, the same applies..first come, first served. And I have more right to the seat than you did.

justhere

I think I'll get some of and put one or two on the seat next to me. "No, no one is sitting there, go ahead. I just have that there so it's easy to reach when, not if, I need it."

Troopers

Seat saving requires an action by A15. Just thinking about it is not saving a seat as explained by multiple people to you.

Approx 1 seat is saved per flight. The same customer service issue occurs at least once, if not multiple times, on every single flight. It's a more impactful statement than the issue occurs less than 1% of the 14M (or whatever number) enplanements.

Troopers

What does cookies and classmates have to do with seat saving? Smells like false equivalence, lol.

I'll play along anyways. While none of the kids 1 through 14 asked for the cookies on the napkin, you influenced their decision simply by placing two cookies on the napkin. You don't know if the same result would have occurred if the two cookies were left on the tray. Kids 1-14 may have thought they were already taken...why else would they be on a napkin and not on a tray? Also, do you see the action that you did to save the cookie? You didn't just think about it...that would be virtual cookie saving.

ETA: anyways, good discussion. Seat saving demonstrates a lack of common courtesy. And shame on WN as their policy is at odds with the commitment to customer service.

kennycrudup

... yet >~75% of my Intra-CA flights go out completely full, and ~90% only have one or two seats left. At least around these parts, WN won't miss 'em.

toomanybooks

justhere

That no one asked me about the open seat next to me doesn't make it any less saved. I sat down knowing I would do everything I could to save the seat for my companion. It's not up to me to determine what other people interpret. I am responsible only for my actions and my actions were saving the seat. I know that doesn't bode well for the argument that every saved seat affects multiple people but it is what it is.

And it might be a more impactful statement but it's misleading. If we are looking at how many people are impacted by seat saving, you have to look at how many people could be impacted and that's the number of enplanements. If we are looking at how many flights have seat saving on them, then sure, look at the number of flights, but that doesn't really tell you much. You could have 100% of the flights have seat saving but as we are talking about customer service, it's important to look at the number of customers. I cannot imagine that WN looks at it simply as the number of flights. They would want to drill down that data to determine how much of an impact it truly has.
Like I said, comparisons, mine included, don't really work well. At least the cookie comparison is a lot closer than someone cheating at cards. And these are kids. If they see something they want, on a napkin or on the tray, we'll be lucky if they even ask rather than just taking what they want. The point was that something was saved and it had no affect on anyone. I could have just as easily left them in the tray and done the same thing knowing that I would tell the snotty kids that the last chocolate chip cookie was saved. I still saved it without doing anything overt up until that point.

Is it really at odds? The people saving a seat I'm sure are quite happy with WN's commitment to customer service.

Proudelitist

"That no one asked me about the open seat next to me doesn't make it any less saved"


Of course it does. Saving is an action, not a desire. The minute you take action to prevent someone sitting in the seat either verbally or by placing items on it, you engage in saving. Until you do that, it's merely hope, or intent at best.

rickg523

There it is. For every passenger complaining about saved seats, there logically must be a passenger who is saving a seat. Otherwise it's just a debate on principle. Interesting, but, given the obvious equivalence implied by the situation, WN isn't going to change long standing policy based on someone's sense of proper social order. Because let's face it, what most people who dislike open seating on WN actually want is assigned seating and cabin class differentiation. Sorry, but if the seat and cabin position is that important to you, WN is simply saying travel with someone else that offers that. They never have, they don't, they never will. It's pretty cut and dried and I'm certain WN doesn't want to ruin your day.

Proudelitist

I disagree. WN offers their incentives and differential pricing based on getting a better boarding position, which means that they are feeding into the notion of getting a wider choice of seats and therefore a better seat. They are operating on selling the solution to a problem they created themselves.

An argument could be made for your claim if WN's only incentive was free flights after x number of flights...however, as they are offering you a better boarding position and check in time compared to non status WGA kettles, they clearly know damn well that not all seats are the same and the customers jockey for them. That's the reason they monetized it.

So no, they are not saying "travel with someone else that offers that"....they are offering it themselves.

rickg523

No. They're offering a slight advantage but not a guarantee of either seat position, or overhead bin space. In this they are no different than carriers which assign seats or sell them or divide the cabin into different priced cabins and zones within these cabins. As is constantly cited when people flying UA or AA or BA complain that they weren't able to sit in their chosen seat (or zone or even cabin, even routing), your ticket buys you transport from A to B. None of the rest is guaranteed, it's ancillary not primary, even though it is combined with the fare for transport. Because you actually purchased a seat number or a particular cabin location, they will refund the difference if you are unable to have those and it's their fault. Most of this time. But anyone reading FT regularly knows this can be a struggle even with something that obvious.
WN sells you a position in the boarding line. It's separate and distinct from anything that happens once you step in the plane. You may assume boarding position implies some corresponding benefit inside the airplane, but that's not what you bought. You bought a line position.
Just as an anecdotal example, I once boarded a flight at an intermediate stop that was a through flight to Las Vegas. Through passengers occupied the first 10 or 12 rows and the exit rows completely (remember, they allow throughs to relocate in the cabin before boarding).
I was A List, number 5 and ended up behind the wing - but on the aisle (my preference).
You're only recourse for a refund would be if they double-assigned your boarding line number - and you'd paid EBCI. And even then, my guess is the agent would offer you the choice of taking the spot behind the one on your pass or taking the refund and boarding at the end of the group (say A 1-30). If the guy you're bumping one spot - say a proud elitist () - complains, I'm pretty sure they'd just have you board later.
As I've said before, WN provides long distance bus service. That's the model. For example can you imagine Greyhound charging to stow your suitcase in the luggage compartment under the bus? Neither can WN.
Many people, frequent flyer or not, would "never take the bus." These folks should think twice about taking WN (in terms of travel style).
It's just not for everyone.

justhere

Whatever fits the narrative.
I think you are kidding yourself if you believe that WN monetized for any other reason than to make money. There isn't a snowball's chance in you know where that they don't know that there's a disconnect between EBCI and seat saving and yet the status quo is still there. WN is clearly quite happy with EBCI and their open seating policy. At least to the point that they've raised the price on EBCI and haven't done anything to prevent seat saving. Right or wrong, they know more and have more data than any of us. I'll let that speak for itself.

toomanybooks

rickg523

A lot of things about WN could tick off 100 people in theory. But one seat saved is only one passenger not getting the seat he wants and one passenger getting it. Everyone else is debating principles and business practices.