SAA's financial woes
Oct 27, 2017, 9:03 am
#91
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N/A
Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
Totally irrelevant to this conversation, but I suddenly remembered the glory days when SAA had a conspicuous office right on Oxford Circus! That was before this newfangled interweb thingy when people actually went to buy tickets etc. at an airline’s offices. And having your office located in a highly prestigious location was a form of willy waving that airlines indulged in to impress the punters.
Well, maybe it’s not entirely irrelevant - having a presence still matters, I’m sure.
Sorry. Normal service can now resume...
Well, maybe it’s not entirely irrelevant - having a presence still matters, I’m sure.
Sorry. Normal service can now resume...
Jul 12, 2018, 3:36 am
#92
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: UA1K, *G & Wife of UA1K MM
Posts: 3,432
Are things pretty stable for people booking tickets in the next two months....no concern of routes being taken away...decent onboard experience for international business? The SAA financial situation always makes us wonder. Thanks.
Jul 12, 2018, 7:51 am
#93
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N/A
Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
Depends which routes. SAA mainline is stable, for the time being. As is Mango and Airlink (booked under SA code, flights numbers 2000-2999, and 8000-8999 respectively). SA Express flights, under the SA code (flight numbers 1000 to 1999) are not currently flying and I would be cautious for the time being. They claim to intend to be fully operational soon, but I'd wait until they are before booking.
Jul 13, 2018, 7:30 am
#95
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In between
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, SPG/Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 564
As others have said, SAA/Mango/Airlink are stable, but be prepared for possible schedule changes leading up to the flight. My experiences on Airlink within ZA were pretty good. That said, I did two long hauls on SAA in business and I'd say the experience was middle of the road; service wasn't particularly great, seats were just OK (wasn't on new A333 unfortunately) and my IFE experienced intermittent outages. If you have options on other carriers, I'd stick with them for the long haul service. YMMV
Jul 13, 2018, 5:32 pm
#96
Join Date: Feb 2003
Programs: UA1K, *G & Wife of UA1K MM
Posts: 3,432
As others have said, SAA/Mango/Airlink are stable, but be prepared for possible schedule changes leading up to the flight. My experiences on Airlink within ZA were pretty good. That said, I did two long hauls on SAA in business and I'd say the experience was middle of the road; service wasn't particularly great, seats were just OK (wasn't on new A333 unfortunately) and my IFE experienced intermittent outages. If you have options on other carriers, I'd stick with them for the long haul service. YMMV
Jul 14, 2018, 2:43 am
#97
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N/A
Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
With the exception of the SA Express flights (and SAA's JNB-HKG-JNB), I wouldn't anticipate any further schedule changes in the near future.
Sep 16, 2019, 5:23 am
#98
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: BA
Posts: 84
SAA Financials
Got flights booked in Jan/Feb with SAA(And Mango in October), but have recently been reading of their financial issues. Not wanting to go hyperbolic on this, but any issues to be concerned about on the financial collapse front and any safety issues?
Sep 16, 2019, 6:36 am
#99
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 1,505
If you track this forum you’ll see that this question comes up regularly. For those of us who fly SAA occasionally, it always seems to be on the brink of disaster, yet it just keeps going. I expect the airline is just too important to South Africa for the government to allow it to collapse.
Sep 16, 2019, 6:50 am
#100
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, United Kingdom
Programs: British Airways Gold
Posts: 2,636
It's a bit like Alitalia. Yes it's in permanent financial distress, and yet thanks to the government, there is almost no chance of it disappearing anytime soon
Last edited by ajeleonard; Sep 16, 2019 at 7:09 am
Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 am
#102
Formerly known as scootr29
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 977
I have a flight booked with them in December...IAD - JNB via ACC. I do however have a back up plan. I am a Platinum Medallion on Delta and have a flight booked from DTW - AMS - JNB. As a PM member I am allowed to cancel my awards flight up to 72 hours before the flight.
Sep 18, 2019, 2:33 pm
#103
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
Programs: AC*G-E100K (once again)
Posts: 1,701
I enjoy SAA over Lufthansa, Air France and KLM on the routes I fly, as long as it's not the old A340 planes.
I usually try to book SAA ticketed by a different airline so that if they do go under I am protected by different airline. But I don't think they will ever go under given government support. It would be too disruptive to the economy.
I usually try to book SAA ticketed by a different airline so that if they do go under I am protected by different airline. But I don't think they will ever go under given government support. It would be too disruptive to the economy.
Oct 30, 2019, 11:04 pm
#104
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CPT
Programs: BA BD SA
Posts: 4,467
"The airline is insolvent and, in its current configuration, unlikely to ever generate sufficient cash flow to sustain its operations."
Quote from the Minister of Finance’s Medium Term Budget Statement yesterday. No mention of any plans for SAA though government will honour its R9.2bn debt guarantee.
Quote from the Minister of Finance’s Medium Term Budget Statement yesterday. No mention of any plans for SAA though government will honour its R9.2bn debt guarantee.
Oct 30, 2019, 11:27 pm
#105
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CPT
Programs: BA BD SA
Posts: 4,467
Indeed, South Africa did run a surplus in 2007 and 2008, but it wasn't budgeted and was due to higher than expected tax receipts. You are correct that the deficit has ballooned, mostly due to weaker tax receipts rather than excessive growth in expenditure.
Countries can get into debt traps but I don't think we are there yet, or anywhere close. South Africa's debt to GDP ratio has fluctuated between 27% and 50% since the 1960s. It is currently 46%. What will reduce the debt to GDP ratio is GDP growth, not lower expenditure or higher taxes. Economic growth is always the biggest fixer for fiscal policy.
Edit: two years of surplus in the last 55 years is pretty close to perpetual deficits.
Countries can get into debt traps but I don't think we are there yet, or anywhere close. South Africa's debt to GDP ratio has fluctuated between 27% and 50% since the 1960s. It is currently 46%. What will reduce the debt to GDP ratio is GDP growth, not lower expenditure or higher taxes. Economic growth is always the biggest fixer for fiscal policy.
Edit: two years of surplus in the last 55 years is pretty close to perpetual deficits.
The national debt now tops R3trn and may grow to R4.5trn by 2022/23 – or 71.3% of GDP. It is currently at 61% of GDP.