The Points Guy: We never accept free flights [merged TPG discussions]
#1561
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: DE
Posts: 265
Substantial article on points & miles game in NYT (online Jan 6, print Jan 10)
There will be an article in the magazine of the upcoming Sunday Times entitled "Points of No Return." A different version was posted on the NYT.com web site yesterday under the heading "The Man Who Turned Credit-Card Points Into an Empire". The article is likely paywalled.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
Last edited by Comatose.Captain; Jan 6, 2021 at 10:46 am Reason: please note this post has been merged--I only discovered this thread after posting
#1562
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,626
There will be an article in the magazine of the upcoming Sunday Times entitled "Points of No Return." A different version was posted on the NYT.com web site yesterday under the heading "The Man Who Turned Credit-Card Points Into an Empire". The article is likely paywalled.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
#1563




Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 24
I agree with the analogy to online poker and as a former online poker player I've had the same thought. Free money doesn't last forever.
There will be an article in the magazine of the upcoming Sunday Times entitled "Points of No Return." A different version was posted on the NYT.com web site yesterday under the heading "The Man Who Turned Credit-Card Points Into an Empire". The article is likely paywalled.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
The hook is Brian Kelly and him bringing points, miles, and CC churning to the mainstream. But the fairly comprehensive article goes much deeper than that, discussing the MS community among other things which is obv more nerdish than the target audience of TPG. The experience of several veterans of FT and BoardingArea are discussed, too.
On the one hand, I find the article pretty decent journalism. On the other hand, I'm afraid this article is just an indication of our hobby going down the drain.
An analogy would be online poker: 15 years ago, any intelligent person with a willingness to study the right forum could make $100 profit an hour playing online poker. Nowadays, the game has advanced tremendously, it's gotten waay less profitable, and even online stakes as low as $50 buy-in can only be consistently beat by expert players who put in the required volume, have a decent grasp of game theory, etc.
In the miles & points game, of course, the enemy is big data, business intelligence, data analytics, whatever you want to call it and not your fellow FTer. The article is more optimistic than me, noting that travel remains as aspirational as ever. As so many people love it, there will remain to be businesses trying to modify people's behavior by provided travel-related miles and points as the carrot. I don't disagree qualitatively.... However, I am much more skeptical about the quantitative possibilities. In my view, technology will get better and better and make it harder and harder for a select few to earn outsized rewards. Just my 2c. Again, really good article.
#1564

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 79
I'm surprised by all the hostility toward TPG. If you don't like the site, don't visit. Several common taters seem very angry. I have not visited TPG in several months, just as I have not visited FT, but in the past I have occasionally found some useful info on TPG. Perhaps some folks are jealous that they did not have the foresight to start a similar website 10 years ago? I know nothing about Brian Kelly, but more power to him. As for CC bonus points, I have not seen any changes in bank underwriting since COVID. My wife and I still managed to collect 500K in bonuses during 2020, in addition to what we earned from spending, and the little bit that I earned from actually flying before COVID. My 20-year old daughter had no problem getting two new cards this year, despite her meager income from part time jobs, and my younger daughter was approved for a card with a 70K bonus on her 18th birthday. It's all good. Someday, the pandemic will be behind us, and our family will have a couple million points burning a whole in our collective pockets. I'm not booking anything yet, but I still enjoy exploring my options from time to time.
#1565
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 27,218
We can help you with that - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...profile-2020-3
Originally Posted by Business Insider
Some former and current TPG employees described a workplace atmosphere they saw as toxic, including allegations of verbal abuse and public shaming by Kelly.
#1567




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; Hilton Dia; Marriott Titanium/LT Gold
Posts: 8,509
Sir, I am offended. I am a remarkable spud.
If you don't know anything about Brian Kelly and his unethical business practices, perhaps you should educate yourself before casting aspersions at others and name-calling.
Not everyone is jealous of millionaires who lack a moral compass.
If you don't know anything about Brian Kelly and his unethical business practices, perhaps you should educate yourself before casting aspersions at others and name-calling.
Not everyone is jealous of millionaires who lack a moral compass.
#1568

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 79
Ah, God bless America.
We can help you with that - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...profile-2020-3
We can help you with that - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...profile-2020-3
#1569

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 79
Sir, I am offended. I am a remarkable spud.
If you don't know anything about Brian Kelly and his unethical business practices, perhaps you should educate yourself before casting aspersions at others and name-calling.
Not everyone is jealous of millionaires who lack a moral compass.
If you don't know anything about Brian Kelly and his unethical business practices, perhaps you should educate yourself before casting aspersions at others and name-calling.
Not everyone is jealous of millionaires who lack a moral compass.
#1570
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 27,218
Thanks for illustrating my point. Do you have any employees? If so, do you think all of your former employees sing your praises? Personally, I would not call anybody unethical unless I had first hand knowledge of their behavior. All successful business people must bear accusations, often false. That's just a fact of life these days.
#1571




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; Hilton Dia; Marriott Titanium/LT Gold
Posts: 8,509
Thanks for illustrating my point. Do you have any employees? If so, do you think all of your former employees sing your praises? Personally, I would not call anybody unethical unless I had first hand knowledge of their behavior. All successful business people must bear accusations, often false. That's just a fact of life these days.
You appear to be impressed by his wealth. Wealth does not equal being a noble human being, and business "success" does not immunize one from criticism. That's just a fact of life "these days" and indeed throughout history.
[redacted] Personally, I would not call anybody jealous unless I had first hand knowledge.
Last edited by oliver2002; Jan 22, 2021 at 2:42 am Reason: 12.2 Avoid Getting Personal: If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate.
#1573


Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP. Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,342
I've definitely noticed that TPG must be desperate for content. Nothing but stuff about RV rentals, national park visits, and rental cars. And of course the weekly recycled and repackaged Disney World posting. BK has been doing lots more TV interviews in what amounts to some weak attempts at website advertisement. That sound you hear is TPG circling the drain.
#1574
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,637
RVentures must be mining for marketing deals as we speak. The question is if they will be able to get the lucrative & exclusive promo deals from the travel & leisure and banking industry as everyone comes out of their pandemic hibernation.
#1575




Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott Lifetime / Annual Titanium; Massively Missing Starwood
Posts: 5,443
I stopped reading any of their blogs months ago. Do they still hire people who would have ten spelling errors and use ten exclamations if they were to have written this post?

