Hkgglobetrotter: not the consensus around here

It is correct as they still use the U and Z class for upgrade. However internally they have different priority and the agent can distinguish that. So the spa gent is correct, same inventory, just different priority.

Last night I spied some availability to complete my Buenos Aires redemption next year. I was planning to go there via QR/DOH and come back with BA/LHR. Using BAEC/QFFFP, I observed QR is stingy with availability and BA only releases their availability via 355 days (I’m worried about losing out to AAdvantage members who can book one-way 360 days out).

At 10PM I called Tsuen Wan and the agent (who did not offer his name) managed to piece together the itinerary I wanted after 30 minutes of talk time (excluding wait time), in redemption J for two:

HKG-(CX)xDOH-(QR)xGRU-(QR)oEZE-(JJ)xGIG-(BA)oLHR-(CX)HKG

QR GRU-EZE is artificial – for some reason I can’t redeem DOH-EZE directly but since this is an OW redemption I have stopovers to share.

I plugged the itinerary into gcmap while he was working – I realise I’m just 322 miles into Zone 12 of the OneWorld redemption chart http://www.asiamiles.com/am/en/redeem/charts#4, and there was an opportunity to use an open jaw to move down to Zone 11. I asked for EZE-GIG in JJ to be changed to an open jaw, and I will pick up the EZE-GIG flight by Avios (being OW-OW I will be able to check-through and may even retain protection)

“No sir, you are not allowed two OW partners plus CX/KA. This itinerary cannot be redeemed.”
“But you allow me three OW partners plus CX?”
“Yes sir. JJ must stay in”

I searched and re-read the rules:

“This awards chart is applicable when you redeem a round-trip award ticket with an itinerary which covers:
• Two oneworld alliance airlines, where Cathay Pacific or Dragonair is not included; or
• Three or more oneworld alliance airlines when Cathay Pacific or Dragonair is included.”

I wasn’t convinced. I quickly Whatsapped two other FTers. They all quickly replied the rule should be interpreted as two OW carriers whether CX/KA was included or not.

That was my understanding too – although I didn’t recollect it before the end of the phone call, my first OW redemption was precisely two OW carriers (JL and AA) plus CX . And that redemption also required supervisor intervention for different reasons.

I told the agent I respectfully disagreed with his interpretation and asked he check with a supervisor. He refused the request.
At that point I saw little point asking for a hold either. I decided to HUACA.

On reflection I should have taken his name.


The DOH-GRU availability on QR was gone by the time I managed to get another agent. The availability on BAEC/QFFFP for the flight fluctuated between 2 and 0 all night, prompting me to call Marco Polo at 12 midnight – 1am, 2:00am, 4:00am and 5:30am (I'm expecting a whtf are you doing calling our call centres like that email from Steve Rackstraw). Both Tsuen Wan and Manila agents were able to see the availability but unable to book it, or claiming the availability has just disappeared right in front of them. I swore all sorts of death threats to the first agent every time the later agents came up empty on the DOH-GRU flight.

I finally had a longer sleep until 7:30am. Saw the availability on BAEC again and called Tsuen Wan, can see but unable to book again. Decided to try Manila one last time before going to work, surprising the agent was able book the itinerary when his Tsuen Wan counterparts can’t.

This agent couldn’t book me QR GRU-EZE, but was able to offer me a JJ GRU-AEP which I accepted in lieu (the first Tsuen Wan agent didn’t proactively offer me this).

Since we’ve just passed 08:00 I saw a new BA flight going straight from EZE skipping the GIG transit becoming available. The agent was unable to include the BA flight but he held the itinerary til tomorrow 17:00 for me to try later. One more HUACA and I had the whole HKG-(CX)xDOH-(QR)xGRU-(JJ)oAEP/EZE-(BA)oLHR-(CX)HKG itinerary sent to ticketing successfully.

The missus's took a bit longer - CX sent an email to JJ:

"**** PLEASE REINSTATE FLT JJ8008/1XOCT ***
*** PROTECTION OCCURRED AFTER TICKETING ****"

Ticket issued a day after mine's.

Of course the agent was wrong. It's 2 OW carriers in addition to CX/KA.

I've had 2 OW carriers other than CX/KA on many occasions. Most recently it was CX + QR + AB for a HKG-FRA-TXL-DOH-HKG itinerary. Can name numerous other itineraries too.

Agent 1 (Tsuen Wan): "(some keyboard dancing) Yes sir you can"

Agent 2 (Tsuen Wan): "No you cannot redeem any subsidiaries of oneworld partners"


I am inclined to go with Agent 1 cos BAEC shows HG availability for Avios redemption.

Ha- especially when the AM website explicitly lists HG as a partner..

Had a similar experience once in the past where an agent insisted that LAN Peru couldn't be booked as it was a LAN Chile codeshare and 'a codeshare could not be booked per the T&C' A stern request to speak with someone at paygrade, where atleast a few grey cells were a requisite and an offer to run an Airline 101 program for that person's team did get that particular issue resolved.

May (I think) of Tsuen Wan

Me: "Hi. Is QR815 (HKG-DOH) for XX/15 for two passengers in U available?"
May: "It is. We can't hold QR."
Me: "I understand. I have two OW ticketed redemptions [HKG-(CX)xDOH-(QR)xGRU-(JJ)AEP/EZE-(BA)oLHR-(CX)HKG]. I like to swap the CX HKG-DOH for the QR815 seats, and drop GRU-AEP please"
May: "You can't do that sir. I have to rebook your entire redemption with new availability."
Me: "No you don't. Reference [a redemption I had changed from HKG-(CX)oSYD-(CX)HKG to HKG-(CX)oSYD-(QF)oBNE-(QF)HKG]. You can see the cancellation and re-issue history on that one right? Did I have to book the CX HKG-SYD with new availability?"
May: "That redemption is an AM redemption. Your DOH redemption is OW"
Me: "Same cancellation and re-issue apply. I'm sorry I need to speak to your supervisor"
May: "Please hold"
May: "I'm sorry my supervisor is handling another call. But I spoke directly with ticketing. They said they can't detach your CX HKG-DOH. They will have to drop your QR DOH-GRU and JJ GRU-EZE as well"

I'm trying the Manila centre right now. I dunno is Tsuen Wan good for HKG-TPE-HKG redemptions only now....

I've had similar situation before.

Wanted to change from CX to BA for a LHR flight. They said I had to cancel and reticket. I gave up the idea due to the penalty for cancellation.

Psychiatrist - I've paid the US$120 (actually charged as HK$936 in practice) before - switching CX SYD-HKG to QF SYD-BNE-HKG, and an earlier one changing MH HKG-KUL-SYD to CX HKG-SYD

The Manila agent I spoke too did not share any of the reservations of her Tsuen Wan colleague. However she got stuck in the disappearing-reappearing QR availability I described in #18 above. QR/MPO isn't going to let me get that QR815 without a fight. Or more like an Occupation.

Sam from Manila: "Once we do a cancel and reissue, we have to release all segments and you may not get them back again."
Me: "Wait. I did this once with [HKG-SYD-HKG]. But the held segment was CX. So you can't do this with partners?"
Sam: "That's correct"

Still unable to book the QR815, despite seeing constant 2-seat availability on BAEC/QFFFP throughout.

Half the agents can see the availability but can't book it, very similar to my original QR771 booking. Problem not alleviated by waiting to next day morning.

But I had two more Manila agents repeat me cancel and rebook will result in all held segments being dropped (#25) and one tell me OW redemptions require 3 partner airlines plus Cathay (#18) but decided to check with Ticketing who set her right (but she got stumped by the "disappearing" QR inventory).

Still trying. 17th Manila agent now...
I'm getting very good at reciting what I want now "Drop 645, add 815, keep 771, drop 8008, keep 244, 252"
"Yes this is a cancellation and reissue. Please charge me US$120 for each of the itineraries. But make sure you keep 771, 244 and 252"

P.S. 18th agent soon, notch one more agent for #25.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B142 Safari/8536.25)

I shall steal your seats

Good luck...

This one's another classic...

This week (all Canto line):

1. (Rebooking a flight to two hours later, asked to pay by 1,000 miles x 2 passengers) "The other passenger on your itinerary debited your miles on date of issue, but he isn't on your redemption list anymore. I'll put the [partner] flight on 5pm hold, please add him back to your list" [didn't do so, HUACA, rebooked without my co-passenger re-entering my redemption list]

2. [Creating second waitlist itinerary of two itineraries for party of three, placed on hold for 10 mins] "Passenger 3 on your requested redemption is a new account. We can't create new itinerary. Please wait a day or two." [notwithstanding I've created the first waitlist itinerary with all three passengers barely 15 minutes ago. I figured this agent must be fresh out of agent school so promptly hung up on him. Got back the agent who did my first waitlist itinerary to do the second].