Cathay vs. Air Canada, three years on.
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC, AMEX, BA, WS
Posts: 164
I wrote a post on my blog about my past three years as a Cathay customer and thought I'd share. Everything has been copied and pasted below for your reading pleasure...
TL;DR Despite living in Air Canada's hub I'm a happy Cathay customer.

The news this week that CIBC is losing Aeroplan to TD got me thinking about Air Canada again.
Up until late 2010 I flew exclusively with Air Canada and its Star Alliance partners. I wouldn't say I travel often but when I do I like to travel a ways -- and Air Canada took me pretty much everywhere, from as close as Ottawa to as far away as Hong Kong.
But in November of that year I took a chance and booked passage to Malaysia on Cathay Pacific, and I've never looked back. Here are a few reasons why...
Service
As a traveller "of status" on Air Canada, the only time I was ever greeted by name was in Auckland aboard an Air New Zealand flight. My interactions with Air Canada employees in general have ranged from slightly above average to pretty bad.
On my first Cathay flight as a Marco Polo Club member my experience couldn't have been more different. Even though my girlfriend and I were flying Economy the flight crew manager came by to check up on us several times during the flight, and other members of the staff made sure we were pampered with toiletries and our choice of breakfast when supplies were running low.
Seats
On my first-ever Cathay flight I experienced their infamous shell seats, which I actually found quite comfortable. Those seats are long gone, but the next time I fly Cathay I'll be sitting in their new Premium Economy section.
Air Canada now also has Premium Economy service to Hong Kong, but only from Vancouver. Cathay's First Class service is likewise only available from YVR but let's face it, it's not like I'm not going to be riding up at the very front anytime soon...
Lounges
I've never been a huge fan of Air Canada's Maple Leaf Lounges. It beats sitting in the terminal, sure, but it's hardly a refuge -- I'll always remember it being full of bratty kids and entitled business-types who all think they're Donald Trump. I almost got into fisticuffs with someone in the Toronto lounge simply because I objected to him spitting apple into my face while he very loudly checked in with home office on his BlackBerry.
If you're flying on Cathay during the day from YYZ you can now use the much quieter Plaza Premium Lounge, and enjoy hot food instead of bitter greens and tepid soup. If you're flying out after midnight you're stuck with the rather unremarkable KLM Krown Lounge.
But man, do things ever improve once you're in Hong Kong... I've not been able to sample Cathay's The Arrival as I can only get a single entry pass to it, but Plaza Premium has an arrivals lounge of their own that's bigger and directly across the hall.
And for departure lounges the girlfriend and I could not believe our eyes when we entered Cathay's flagship The Wing -- spanning two floors it's literally four lounges in one. With made-to-order noodles and coffee on the second level we could have happily stayed there all day.
Stopovers
There's no denying the convenience of flying from an airline's hub. Now that we've pledged my allegiance to Cathay and its oneworld partners we've had to connect to overseas flights in Chicago more than once.
Hi, TSA!
As airports go Chicago O'Hare is undeniably my least favourite in the Americas -- but hey, at least it's not Frankfurt. If ORD is ghetto then FRA is a gulag, and unfortunately it's also Air Canada's European hub.
Partners
In my Aeroplan years I got to fly on a lot of Air Canada's Star Alliance partners. Of the lot I think I liked Air New Zealand the best. I'd put Lufthansa around the middle of the pack and Air Canada somewhere below that, on par with United.
Among Cathay's oneworld alliance I'd rank Japan Airlines near the very top, British Airways above average and American Airlines at the bottom, just above the even-worse American Eagle.
It has to be said, though, that I've so far logged many more miles on Star Alliance airlines than oneworld ones. Plans are afoot to sample Qantas some time in 2014...
Points
I'll admit that it took me a while to wrap my head around Asia Miles versus the Marco Polo Club; it eventually sunk in that Asia Miles is for points accumulation and Marco Polo is for status.
Since I stopped flying Air Canada they've introduced their status program, called Altitude. And now Aeroplan seems to be introducing a separate status program called Distinction. It's all very confusing.
There is, however, one clear "distinction" between the two programs: Asia Miles is owned and operated by Cathay, whereas Aeroplan has been outsourced to a global loyalty management and marketing company called Aimia. If I was beholden to Aeroplan I'd be a bit uneasy about that.
Once the dust settles in 2014 I might revisit Aeroplan and Air Canada but honestly, with the service and perks I've received from Cathay it's unlikely that I'll be going back.
TL;DR Despite living in Air Canada's hub I'm a happy Cathay customer.


The news this week that CIBC is losing Aeroplan to TD got me thinking about Air Canada again.
Up until late 2010 I flew exclusively with Air Canada and its Star Alliance partners. I wouldn't say I travel often but when I do I like to travel a ways -- and Air Canada took me pretty much everywhere, from as close as Ottawa to as far away as Hong Kong.
But in November of that year I took a chance and booked passage to Malaysia on Cathay Pacific, and I've never looked back. Here are a few reasons why...
Service
As a traveller "of status" on Air Canada, the only time I was ever greeted by name was in Auckland aboard an Air New Zealand flight. My interactions with Air Canada employees in general have ranged from slightly above average to pretty bad.
On my first Cathay flight as a Marco Polo Club member my experience couldn't have been more different. Even though my girlfriend and I were flying Economy the flight crew manager came by to check up on us several times during the flight, and other members of the staff made sure we were pampered with toiletries and our choice of breakfast when supplies were running low.
Seats
On my first-ever Cathay flight I experienced their infamous shell seats, which I actually found quite comfortable. Those seats are long gone, but the next time I fly Cathay I'll be sitting in their new Premium Economy section.
Air Canada now also has Premium Economy service to Hong Kong, but only from Vancouver. Cathay's First Class service is likewise only available from YVR but let's face it, it's not like I'm not going to be riding up at the very front anytime soon...
Lounges
I've never been a huge fan of Air Canada's Maple Leaf Lounges. It beats sitting in the terminal, sure, but it's hardly a refuge -- I'll always remember it being full of bratty kids and entitled business-types who all think they're Donald Trump. I almost got into fisticuffs with someone in the Toronto lounge simply because I objected to him spitting apple into my face while he very loudly checked in with home office on his BlackBerry.
If you're flying on Cathay during the day from YYZ you can now use the much quieter Plaza Premium Lounge, and enjoy hot food instead of bitter greens and tepid soup. If you're flying out after midnight you're stuck with the rather unremarkable KLM Krown Lounge.
But man, do things ever improve once you're in Hong Kong... I've not been able to sample Cathay's The Arrival as I can only get a single entry pass to it, but Plaza Premium has an arrivals lounge of their own that's bigger and directly across the hall.
And for departure lounges the girlfriend and I could not believe our eyes when we entered Cathay's flagship The Wing -- spanning two floors it's literally four lounges in one. With made-to-order noodles and coffee on the second level we could have happily stayed there all day.
Stopovers
There's no denying the convenience of flying from an airline's hub. Now that we've pledged my allegiance to Cathay and its oneworld partners we've had to connect to overseas flights in Chicago more than once.
Hi, TSA!
As airports go Chicago O'Hare is undeniably my least favourite in the Americas -- but hey, at least it's not Frankfurt. If ORD is ghetto then FRA is a gulag, and unfortunately it's also Air Canada's European hub.
Partners
In my Aeroplan years I got to fly on a lot of Air Canada's Star Alliance partners. Of the lot I think I liked Air New Zealand the best. I'd put Lufthansa around the middle of the pack and Air Canada somewhere below that, on par with United.
Among Cathay's oneworld alliance I'd rank Japan Airlines near the very top, British Airways above average and American Airlines at the bottom, just above the even-worse American Eagle.
It has to be said, though, that I've so far logged many more miles on Star Alliance airlines than oneworld ones. Plans are afoot to sample Qantas some time in 2014...
Points
I'll admit that it took me a while to wrap my head around Asia Miles versus the Marco Polo Club; it eventually sunk in that Asia Miles is for points accumulation and Marco Polo is for status.
Since I stopped flying Air Canada they've introduced their status program, called Altitude. And now Aeroplan seems to be introducing a separate status program called Distinction. It's all very confusing.
There is, however, one clear "distinction" between the two programs: Asia Miles is owned and operated by Cathay, whereas Aeroplan has been outsourced to a global loyalty management and marketing company called Aimia. If I was beholden to Aeroplan I'd be a bit uneasy about that.
Once the dust settles in 2014 I might revisit Aeroplan and Air Canada but honestly, with the service and perks I've received from Cathay it's unlikely that I'll be going back.
#2
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
This is EXACTLY how I feel about Air Canada. I use to fly AC for the YVR-EWR route, but once I found that CX flew to JFK, I have not flown on AC since. Even for my YVR-YYZ trips where I'm forced to pick a Canadian domestic carrier, I'd rather fly Westjet then to fly AC ever again. Do I have AC phobia? This was what got me to avoid AC.
I flew AC YYZ to YVR, an elderly flight attendant literally shoved her way through the aisle when everyone was boarding knocking me off balance. I decided to file a complaint against her to the Inflight Service Manager. Mid flight during drink service the elderly flight attendant elbowed me in the head as she was grabbing the coffee pot to pour a cup.
As a passenger, I expected flight attendants to ensure that my safety is paramount on a flight. But if you get physically assaulted by someone who's job to ensure that you don't get harmed, it speaks volumes on how poorly AC is run and their assurance for my safety. If an airline can't even look out for my safety, what good is that airline?
On another note, even as a J-class passenger, I had to constantly ask for my boarding drink. AC's renowned service is poor service.
Bottom line: From a paying customer and passenger perspective, I see AC offers only poor service and has a poor safety record.
I flew AC YYZ to YVR, an elderly flight attendant literally shoved her way through the aisle when everyone was boarding knocking me off balance. I decided to file a complaint against her to the Inflight Service Manager. Mid flight during drink service the elderly flight attendant elbowed me in the head as she was grabbing the coffee pot to pour a cup.
As a passenger, I expected flight attendants to ensure that my safety is paramount on a flight. But if you get physically assaulted by someone who's job to ensure that you don't get harmed, it speaks volumes on how poorly AC is run and their assurance for my safety. If an airline can't even look out for my safety, what good is that airline?
On another note, even as a J-class passenger, I had to constantly ask for my boarding drink. AC's renowned service is poor service.
Bottom line: From a paying customer and passenger perspective, I see AC offers only poor service and has a poor safety record.
#3
Original Poster




Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC, AMEX, BA, WS
Posts: 164
I flew AC YYZ to YVR, an elderly flight attendant literally shoved her way through the aisle when everyone was boarding knocking me off balance. I decided to file a complaint against her to the Inflight Service Manager. Mid flight during drink service the elderly flight attendant elbowed me in the head as she was grabbing the coffee pot to pour a cup.
I never had an experience that bad but, like so many other Canadian institutions, the general vibe with Air Canada always seemed to be that I should be grateful for any service at all.
I used to fly to Bermuda to see family once a year (they've sinced moved back) -- imagine how thrilled I was when WestJet started flying there!
#4


Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
While I haven't bump into this extreme case of shoving and bumping, but yes, unions in North America are so powerful they literally don't have to worry about performance. Short of murdering someone on the plane it doesn't matter how many complains you launch against them, they will keep their jobs, get the same raises, and get promoted based on years of service and not levels of service. On North American airlines, you are lucky to get service, not expecting service.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-PP, HL-DM, MR-LTP, HY-LTG
Posts: 26,017
FYI - AC and CX have the same union in Canada - CUPE. The Canadian Union of Public Employees. But looking at it all, CX just has better training. Even as much as people complain about the Canadian based crews not as good as the HK based ones, they are head and shoulders better than most Air Canada FAs.
#6


Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LHR
Programs: CX GO, BA Gold, OZ*G, IHG Spire RA
Posts: 318
Check out the Aeroplan/Altitude program changes just announced on the Aeroplan forum. Quite a bit of uproar there in the last two days. I've also been a faithful AC and *A flyer achieving AC top level for the last seven years. And far exceeding it the last three. Now that I have moved to HK, CX just seems so much better. I'm cancelling an LX ticket booked in J today to switch to BA or AY so I can accumulate miles on MPC. DM here I come!
When (actually if, I love it here) I move back to Vancouver I will likely stick with CX and fly AC as little as possible.
Service for me on int'l AC flights in J has been quite acceptable but CX really goes the extra mile and you notice a big difference when you are in Y for sure.
When (actually if, I love it here) I move back to Vancouver I will likely stick with CX and fly AC as little as possible.
Service for me on int'l AC flights in J has been quite acceptable but CX really goes the extra mile and you notice a big difference when you are in Y for sure.
#7
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
AC service really sucks bigtime. I'd rather take WestJet as well. CX is just so much better.
A few years back when I was checking in I showed my elite card, and the employee just took out a pair of scissors and cut the card up and threw it in the trash just because I didn't satisfy the amount of flights to renew it. I told him I don't have my original card anymore since my account was opened in the early 2000's. He's like doesn't matter It's in the trash already.
A few years back when I was checking in I showed my elite card, and the employee just took out a pair of scissors and cut the card up and threw it in the trash just because I didn't satisfy the amount of flights to renew it. I told him I don't have my original card anymore since my account was opened in the early 2000's. He's like doesn't matter It's in the trash already.
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
AC service really sucks bigtime. I'd rather take WestJet as well. CX is just so much better.
A few years back when I was checking in I showed my elite card, and the employee just took out a pair of scissors and cut the card up and threw it in the trash just because I didn't satisfy the amount of flights to renew it. I told him I don't have my original card anymore since my account was opened in the early 2000's. He's like doesn't matter It's in the trash already.
A few years back when I was checking in I showed my elite card, and the employee just took out a pair of scissors and cut the card up and threw it in the trash just because I didn't satisfy the amount of flights to renew it. I told him I don't have my original card anymore since my account was opened in the early 2000's. He's like doesn't matter It's in the trash already.
#9
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Programs: DL, AA, AV, AC
Posts: 83
#10


Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: CX Diamond
Posts: 212
^
As a 5-year AC Elite, I gave up on AC status two years ago (despite my username) and instead split my 100K flying between Asiana (long-haul, and connections don't really bother me) and Cathay (regional).
I have a very happy balance of Diamond Plus on OZ (which gives me *G for two years at a time and a high priority in op-up's when I fly OZ metal) and Silver on MPC, which gives me lounges when I fly regionally (with the odd long-haul) on CX. Being based in HK means I don't really need to fly 1w partners much, so 1w Ruby is sufficient at the moment.
Having read what will happen to the Altitude program for 2014 I am SO glad that I jumped ship!
As a 5-year AC Elite, I gave up on AC status two years ago (despite my username) and instead split my 100K flying between Asiana (long-haul, and connections don't really bother me) and Cathay (regional).
I have a very happy balance of Diamond Plus on OZ (which gives me *G for two years at a time and a high priority in op-up's when I fly OZ metal) and Silver on MPC, which gives me lounges when I fly regionally (with the odd long-haul) on CX. Being based in HK means I don't really need to fly 1w partners much, so 1w Ruby is sufficient at the moment.
Having read what will happen to the Altitude program for 2014 I am SO glad that I jumped ship!
#11
Original Poster




Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC, AMEX, BA, WS
Posts: 164
#12
Formerly known as jsfrSuperElite




Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong, Montreal
Programs: Air Canada SE100K-1MM, Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 590
This is EXACTLY how I feel about Air Canada. I use to fly AC for the YVR-EWR route, but once I found that CX flew to JFK, I have not flown on AC since. Even for my YVR-YYZ trips where I'm forced to pick a Canadian domestic carrier, I'd rather fly Westjet then to fly AC ever again. Do I have AC phobia? This was what got me to avoid AC.
I flew AC YYZ to YVR, an elderly flight attendant literally shoved her way through the aisle when everyone was boarding knocking me off balance. I decided to file a complaint against her to the Inflight Service Manager. Mid flight during drink service the elderly flight attendant elbowed me in the head as she was grabbing the coffee pot to pour a cup.
As a passenger, I expected flight attendants to ensure that my safety is paramount on a flight. But if you get physically assaulted by someone who's job to ensure that you don't get harmed, it speaks volumes on how poorly AC is run and their assurance for my safety. If an airline can't even look out for my safety, what good is that airline?
On another note, even as a J-class passenger, I had to constantly ask for my boarding drink. AC's renowned service is poor service.
Bottom line: From a paying customer and passenger perspective, I see AC offers only poor service and has a poor safety record.
I flew AC YYZ to YVR, an elderly flight attendant literally shoved her way through the aisle when everyone was boarding knocking me off balance. I decided to file a complaint against her to the Inflight Service Manager. Mid flight during drink service the elderly flight attendant elbowed me in the head as she was grabbing the coffee pot to pour a cup.
As a passenger, I expected flight attendants to ensure that my safety is paramount on a flight. But if you get physically assaulted by someone who's job to ensure that you don't get harmed, it speaks volumes on how poorly AC is run and their assurance for my safety. If an airline can't even look out for my safety, what good is that airline?
On another note, even as a J-class passenger, I had to constantly ask for my boarding drink. AC's renowned service is poor service.
Bottom line: From a paying customer and passenger perspective, I see AC offers only poor service and has a poor safety record.
#13
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
They have a poor safety record in ensuring my safety. I was attacked by an AC flight attendant because I filed a complaint against her.
#14
Formerly known as jsfrSuperElite




Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong, Montreal
Programs: Air Canada SE100K-1MM, Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 590
#15


Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: CX Diamond
Posts: 212
I read through this thread on the Aeroplan forum, and like I wrote in my post, I really don't understand what's going on with Aeroplan vs. Altitude now. 

Beginning in 2013, Air Canada has re-started its own in-house top-tier program, Altitude. Those top-tier flyers get Altitude miles, which are only used to qualify for status, as well as Aeroplan miles, which are only used to redeem for flights/etc.
Now Aeroplan has also developed a top-tier program for its own members, the main distinction (haha, get it) being that miles earned by Aeroplan partners (save for some bank/credit card bonuses) are eligible, whereas Altitude counts only miles flown in qualifying fare buckets. The benefits are NOT the same, meaning there are no priority boarding/additional baggage allowance/Star Alliance statuses offered.
The part I really don't like is this: For 2014, E35, E50 and E75 members now have to pay a fee in addition to using their eUpgrade credits in order to upgrade on long-haul international flights. This fee is only charged if the upgrade successfully clears.

