SAS Go: Devalution in EuroBonus earnings
Oct 1, 2018, 3:41 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,095
If SAS really cares about customer feedback and really act on it - they would have been a much nicer airline.
Oct 1, 2018, 3:54 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ARN
Posts: 3,472
So, now you may have to do 75 round-trip flights across the Atlantic to qualify for one "free" flight to e.g. London or Paris ...
When it comes to the European cuts, I agree. They are now much in line with what revenue based programs like LH and AF offer on leisure rates.
But when it comes to long-haul tickets, it's now way below even the horrible earnings of Miles&Less or Lying Blue.
I really doubt that baggage will be gone on Asia routes. On routes to the USA, they mainly compete with Norwegian, which sells tickets without baggage. But on routes to Asia, they mainly compete with AY, EK, QR, CA, CX and similar airlines, and they all have baggage and meals included in the price.
The crazy thing is that I've had car rentals where I got 10,000 miles for around 70 euros, while a flight ticket which costs around 400 euros could end up earning only 400 miles round-trip. It's not a frequent flyer program anymore, and it's not just SAS, it's the whole industry. The whole concept of earning miles on flights is quickly dwindling.
But when it comes to long-haul tickets, it's now way below even the horrible earnings of Miles&Less or Lying Blue.
I really doubt that baggage will be gone on Asia routes. On routes to the USA, they mainly compete with Norwegian, which sells tickets without baggage. But on routes to Asia, they mainly compete with AY, EK, QR, CA, CX and similar airlines, and they all have baggage and meals included in the price.
The crazy thing is that I've had car rentals where I got 10,000 miles for around 70 euros, while a flight ticket which costs around 400 euros could end up earning only 400 miles round-trip. It's not a frequent flyer program anymore, and it's not just SAS, it's the whole industry. The whole concept of earning miles on flights is quickly dwindling.
Oct 1, 2018, 11:13 pm
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
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If we look at CPH EWR, that is 3800 miles. So far that has been earning 3000 points even on the cheapest ticket, compared to most airlines that was fairly generous. And as such it can't really surprise we are seeing a cut. The 1600 for most standard Go fares is in line with what most other airlines do. So far not so bad.
The Lite earning plus O and T on standard Go is roughly 5% of flown distance, that must really be the lowest earnings to be found anywhere. Though 10% is seen on a few OW airlines for cheap economy tickets. And maybe on SQ as well. The problem is that passengers have a skewed view of what dirt cheap is. SK2751 remarked up thread that a ticket at 2 times 1 hour at 150 euro is not dirt cheap. (sorry SK2751, this is not to pick on you, just to use a specific example). That is where the problem arises, you probably can't even drive a car that distance for that price. The airline industry have created a marketplace where the expectations of price has becone unrealistically low, and now they are working overtime to be able to make longterm sustainable profits in that marketplace. In another thread, I saw someone remarking that they were expecting a sub 400 USD trip from the US west coast to Japan, though admittedly it was not entirely clear if the expectation was for a return flight or just one way.
I think the light fares in Europe and the cheap standard Go (except O and T) have reasonable earnings after this cut. I think the long haul O and T plus Lite fares should have about 4 times what they get in this version.
I think the light fares in Europe and the cheap standard Go (except O and T) have reasonable earnings after this cut. I think the long haul O and T plus Lite fares should have about 4 times what they get in this version.
Last edited by CPH-Flyer; Oct 1, 2018 at 11:43 pm Reason: line breaks
Oct 1, 2018, 11:20 pm
#49
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Koala Lemur
Programs: SK EBD LTG (*G)
Posts: 2,447
I actually believe that the cost of a mile (on a sufficiently long distance and a route where there is traffic) should be considerably lower than driving a car. Otherwise the industry is not really moving the right direction. (Incidentally, but this is almost off topic, the CO2 emissions for flying are already lower than for driving on the same distance, assuming that you drive alone).
I referred to 150 EUR as not dirt cheap, given that competition sells the same tickets for 30% of the price, offering largely the same service; not because I don't want to pay the 150 EUR. I am unlikely to pay though if I have to suffer the same bad conditions as for 50 EUR.
I referred to 150 EUR as not dirt cheap, given that competition sells the same tickets for 30% of the price, offering largely the same service; not because I don't want to pay the 150 EUR. I am unlikely to pay though if I have to suffer the same bad conditions as for 50 EUR.
Oct 2, 2018, 12:07 am
#50
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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I actually believe that the cost of a mile (on a sufficiently long distance and a route where there is traffic) should be considerably lower than driving a car. Otherwise the industry is not really moving the right direction. (Incidentally, but this is almost off topic, the CO2 emissions for flying are already lower than for driving on the same distance, assuming that you drive alone).
I referred to 150 EUR as not dirt cheap, given that competition sells the same tickets for 30% of the price, offering largely the same service; not because I don't want to pay the 150 EUR. I am unlikely to pay though if I have to suffer the same bad conditions as for 50 EUR.
I referred to 150 EUR as not dirt cheap, given that competition sells the same tickets for 30% of the price, offering largely the same service; not because I don't want to pay the 150 EUR. I am unlikely to pay though if I have to suffer the same bad conditions as for 50 EUR.
The problem is though, that the 50€ alternatives are EasyJet, Ryanair, Wizz, etc. And while SK certainly have come far down in the world, they have not quite brought the suffering to those levels. Try to add in a speedy boarding, or seat a selection, to be certain that you can bring a decent sized carry on, and see what happens to the EasyJet prices. Comparing to Norwegian would be more level, but then the 30% of the price would probably mostly translate in to 30% discount compared SK or less than that.
For the Danish market it would be about 3DKK per KM driven and upwards, so the 150€ trip would clock in at around 400€. In markets where cars are less taxed, that would come in with a lower price. But still flying even on this short a distance comes in quite a bit cheaper than the car.
Oct 2, 2018, 3:40 am
#51
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
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So, now you may have to do 75 round-trip flights across the Atlantic to qualify for one "free" flight to e.g. London or Paris ...
When it comes to the European cuts, I agree. They are now much in line with what revenue based programs like LH and AF offer on leisure rates.
But when it comes to long-haul tickets, it's now way below even the horrible earnings of Miles&Less or Lying Blue.
I really doubt that baggage will be gone on Asia routes. On routes to the USA, they mainly compete with Norwegian, which sells tickets without baggage. But on routes to Asia, they mainly compete with AY, EK, QR, CA, CX and similar airlines, and they all have baggage and meals included in the price.
The crazy thing is that I've had car rentals where I got 10,000 miles for around 70 euros, while a flight ticket which costs around 400 euros could end up earning only 400 miles round-trip. It's not a frequent flyer program anymore, and it's not just SAS, it's the whole industry. The whole concept of earning miles on flights is quickly dwindling.
When it comes to the European cuts, I agree. They are now much in line with what revenue based programs like LH and AF offer on leisure rates.
But when it comes to long-haul tickets, it's now way below even the horrible earnings of Miles&Less or Lying Blue.
I really doubt that baggage will be gone on Asia routes. On routes to the USA, they mainly compete with Norwegian, which sells tickets without baggage. But on routes to Asia, they mainly compete with AY, EK, QR, CA, CX and similar airlines, and they all have baggage and meals included in the price.
The crazy thing is that I've had car rentals where I got 10,000 miles for around 70 euros, while a flight ticket which costs around 400 euros could end up earning only 400 miles round-trip. It's not a frequent flyer program anymore, and it's not just SAS, it's the whole industry. The whole concept of earning miles on flights is quickly dwindling.
Regarding the US flight no checked bag thing - if they are trying to compete with DY, then why do they have it on ALL routes? I don't think DY flies to PDX, SLC, SEA. DY flies to DXB, BKK plus other places, Scoot does SIN to BER, I'm not surprised Hong Kong airlines is eyeing for possibilities too. It was an excuse for airlines to turn this into a money making and *G devaluation opportunity, all they need to do is to gang up and do it together like the situation now.
I'm really wondering whether there will be more Avis campaign when the devaluation takes effect.
I agree the airlines are not so fond of giving loyal customers freebies anymore and that's why I'm enjoying what I have and try to make status when it makes sense.
Oct 2, 2018, 3:59 am
#52
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 2,962
Regarding the US flight no checked bag thing - if they are trying to compete with DY, then why do they have it on ALL routes? I don't think DY flies to PDX, SLC, SEA. DY flies to DXB, BKK plus other places, Scoot does SIN to BER, I'm not surprised Hong Kong airlines is eyeing for possibilities too. It was an excuse for airlines to turn this into a money making and *G devaluation opportunity, all they need to do is to gang up and do it together like the situation now.
And as a note it is not only DY that is a LCC to US. WW and FI serve many cities in the US as do some other companies. So it is not only about DY.
Oct 2, 2018, 4:39 am
#53
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What are you talking about? Does SK fly to PDX, SLC or SEA? And if you refer to codeshare flights, there are no Light tickets on those flights. Neither on SH nor LH. So nothing has changed concerning the luggage benefits on those flights.
And as a note it is not only DY that is a LCC to US. WW and FI serve many cities in the US as do some other companies. So it is not only about DY.
And as a note it is not only DY that is a LCC to US. WW and FI serve many cities in the US as do some other companies. So it is not only about DY.
Oct 2, 2018, 9:08 am
#54
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,980
Lets stick to the EB point earnings.... not on HBO fares.
For those AVIS promos or AMEX offers we should not forget that AVIS and AMEX have to buy the points at SAS EuroBonus. I guess these deals are properly priced and won't disappear as long as SAS makes money on them. You cannot compare 10.000 points for a $75 rental with 100 points for a $150 flight. Or the 20.000 basic points from AMEX Elite for SEK 4.000 with 1.000 points for a r/t in Go for SEK 4.000.
By the way, the topic title is wrong... it is not e devaluation of the points, actually quite the opposite. They get much more precious. It is drastic reduction in earnings. Let's just hope it won't come to a real devaluation on top and they will change redemption levels. Then the program is effectively dead.
After the first anger has settled and thinking about it a bit more I guess it won't hurt that bad to me. I have not yet booked a single light fare. For intra-European flights I usually buy Plus or at least Go. On long-haul, well... that is a different topic which is really painful. Being stuck to cheapest economy my earnings drop by about 50%. Makes me angry.... but then I realize same happens for the partner flights and on other programs as well. I had a lot of flights on LH in W, Q, V or S which just award 50% of the distance. I could so far avoid K, L or T with 25%.
Just started my new qualification 10/1. Let's see where it takes me, ended this year with 90.002 points as I did not travel that much. I do expect some more busy schedule this year, but than the earnings on long-haul might make the difference.
No, it does not hurt but I'm somewhat between being realistic and bitter, just worn down. And I have send numerous thoughts and complaints to SK over the years... all of them were answered with a mix between arrogance and ignorance. Don't think it will be any different now and to be honest I rather have no answer and live with the things to come than to get my blood pressure up reading the insulting reply from SAS marcom team.
The only thing SAS listens to is $$$. And as we have seen over the years even a direct hit on sales due to unpopular decisions didn't make them change their ways. Once the management finally got around their 1.500 rounds of strategy meetings debating the business- or strategy-consultants proposals by agreeing on a consensus (the famous Swedish way of non-confrontational leadership) over 15.000 kanelbullar (and double that amount cups of stale coffee), they won't got back. EVER.
So, what.... just wrote my company liason at SK as well. Let's see if I get what I think I will get...
Well, that is a very different thing. If you lead a multi-billion dollar heavy public traded company and tell the world that the share price will be sold out at $420 to a private investor... then you lure people into buying those shares hoping for a pay-day. Of course SEC is not happy, and I think he got away much too cheap.
For those AVIS promos or AMEX offers we should not forget that AVIS and AMEX have to buy the points at SAS EuroBonus. I guess these deals are properly priced and won't disappear as long as SAS makes money on them. You cannot compare 10.000 points for a $75 rental with 100 points for a $150 flight. Or the 20.000 basic points from AMEX Elite for SEK 4.000 with 1.000 points for a r/t in Go for SEK 4.000.
By the way, the topic title is wrong... it is not e devaluation of the points, actually quite the opposite. They get much more precious. It is drastic reduction in earnings. Let's just hope it won't come to a real devaluation on top and they will change redemption levels. Then the program is effectively dead.
After the first anger has settled and thinking about it a bit more I guess it won't hurt that bad to me. I have not yet booked a single light fare. For intra-European flights I usually buy Plus or at least Go. On long-haul, well... that is a different topic which is really painful. Being stuck to cheapest economy my earnings drop by about 50%. Makes me angry.... but then I realize same happens for the partner flights and on other programs as well. I had a lot of flights on LH in W, Q, V or S which just award 50% of the distance. I could so far avoid K, L or T with 25%.
Just started my new qualification 10/1. Let's see where it takes me, ended this year with 90.002 points as I did not travel that much. I do expect some more busy schedule this year, but than the earnings on long-haul might make the difference.
So here's the difference. If it's just me emailing SAS, I will get the canned response.
If its 50 of us, we still get a canned response.
If its 5000 of us, and Eurobonus has much more members, we might get attention to the case.
Sure, there's always a high, a very high chance all of our efforts will go down the drain, but you anyways spend time here on the forum, u read businessclass.se and you have time to answer here.
Would it kill you to, at worst copy paste email, and send it to SAS?
Im sure we wont get back old mileage earnings, but at least make em aware we are not happy?
Eller hur?
If its 50 of us, we still get a canned response.
If its 5000 of us, and Eurobonus has much more members, we might get attention to the case.
Sure, there's always a high, a very high chance all of our efforts will go down the drain, but you anyways spend time here on the forum, u read businessclass.se and you have time to answer here.
Would it kill you to, at worst copy paste email, and send it to SAS?
Im sure we wont get back old mileage earnings, but at least make em aware we are not happy?
Eller hur?
The only thing SAS listens to is $$$. And as we have seen over the years even a direct hit on sales due to unpopular decisions didn't make them change their ways. Once the management finally got around their 1.500 rounds of strategy meetings debating the business- or strategy-consultants proposals by agreeing on a consensus (the famous Swedish way of non-confrontational leadership) over 15.000 kanelbullar (and double that amount cups of stale coffee), they won't got back. EVER.
So, what.... just wrote my company liason at SK as well. Let's see if I get what I think I will get...
Well, that is a very different thing. If you lead a multi-billion dollar heavy public traded company and tell the world that the share price will be sold out at $420 to a private investor... then you lure people into buying those shares hoping for a pay-day. Of course SEC is not happy, and I think he got away much too cheap.
Last edited by fassy; Oct 2, 2018 at 11:58 am
Oct 2, 2018, 9:53 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,095
The only thing SAS listens to is $$$. And as we have seen over the years even a direct hit on sales due to unpopular decisions didn't make them change their ways. Once the management finally got around their 1.500 rounds of strategy meetings debating the business- or strategy-consultants proposals by agreeing on a consensus (the famous Swedish way of non-confrontational leadership) over 15.000 kanelbullar (and double that amount cups of stale coffee), they won't got back. EVER.
I think SK wants to reward those who pay the $ - they do a different approach by not having revenue based earnings.
Oct 2, 2018, 12:02 pm
#56
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,980
I for once wouldn't mind revenue based earnings. That is the easiest way for a fair relationship between customer and company. Both have a fixed reward-to-Dollar-spent agreement and both know the value. On the other hand they might then also change the redemption levels to a Dollar-per-point value. So, a FFP would become just a rebate program like hotels.com is doing - with added benefits for elite members which spend enough money. Fair and square.
Oct 2, 2018, 12:32 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 2,962
I for once wouldn't mind revenue based earnings. That is the easiest way for a fair relationship between customer and company. Both have a fixed reward-to-Dollar-spent agreement and both know the value. On the other hand they might then also change the redemption levels to a Dollar-per-point value. So, a FFP would become just a rebate program like hotels.com is doing - with added benefits for elite members which spend enough money. Fair and square.
Oct 2, 2018, 5:37 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,184
I for once wouldn't mind revenue based earnings. That is the easiest way for a fair relationship between customer and company. Both have a fixed reward-to-Dollar-spent agreement and both know the value. On the other hand they might then also change the redemption levels to a Dollar-per-point value. So, a FFP would become just a rebate program like hotels.com is doing - with added benefits for elite members which spend enough money. Fair and square.
So to get close to a the new levels, they would need revenue to points ratios to be tiered between Lite, Go, Plus, and Business. And then it is not fully revenue based any longer. Or they would need a massive reshuffling of everything.
Now that the dust have settled, I can see that the current change will not affect me. I think I have had two flights this year where I did not check luggage, so I will not be buying Lite fares, and I will never be booking far enough in advance to get O and T for long haul. And that's assuming I would be booking long haul Go with SK.
I am stil worried what may happen to partner earnings after this, as I do get a big chunk of my points from Star Alliance flights. But I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
Oct 2, 2018, 11:02 pm
#59
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: AY+, SK EB
Posts: 2,962
I am less worried about that, since it is the partner airline that pays and not SK. Similiar to Avis/Hertz/etc. paying for the points. But sure, also the other airlines want to save money, so the earnings aren't carved in stone.
Oct 2, 2018, 11:10 pm
#60
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK
Programs: OZ Diamond (*G), KQ Asante Gold (ST+), Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,511
Often when airlines radically reduce earning like this, they will request partners to also credit less for those fares, so members can't be as easily incentivized to flee.