Traveloguy

Which if you think about it does not change my premise. The rules are simply stating that a fare gets booked into a particular class first and then should that class be available, it is possible to re-book a fare into a higher class code.

I am assuming that KUP fares credit as 1.5 EQPs/mile to AA, correct? Or do they credit at the usual K level (1 EQP/mile)? If they credit as 1.5 EQPs/mile that means the system is (correctly) interpreting them as being in A rather than K.

number_6

I don't know how they credit (AA doesn't only shows miles credited for past flights, they don't show EQP per flight, just the EQP YTD, so you have to check the EQP immediately after a flight credits to see the EQP increment). I beg to differ about your premise being affected, it is not an A fare. But I guess some people aren't put off by little thinkgs, like the fare being called a KUP and needing K inventory, to stop calling it an A fare. Since I no longer credit anything to QFF, it doesn't matter to me.

Traveloguy

Well it can even matter to AA flyers as 1.5 EQPs/mile is significantly more than earning 1.0 EQPs/mile! if your chasing PlAAt or EXP

Dave Noble

If it books in Y and then it gets rebooked into A if available ( as detailed above by #6 and Kiwi Flyer), then that is a free upgrade isn't it?

When upgraded to a higher class of travel, the only entitlement is for points to be credited at the fare paid and not at the upgraded cabin rate. The fact that these have been crediting as 1st does not make it an entitlement

Hopefully this is a one off glitch, but I still see no entitlement to 1st points/SCs should they elect to change the crediting.

Dave

Traveloguy

I disagree. If it books into A you should get 1st SCs. Forget for a moment that it is called a KUP or YUP and remember that they are just a collection of fare rules rather than being the fare class itself.

Dave Noble

I cannot agree here; if it is an upgrade to first, it is still an upgrade regardless of the booking class used; upgrades using miles/UCs to QF credit according to fare basis as do upgrades using miles/evips to AA. By the reckoning that you seem to be applying, then an economy flight from PER-SYD upgraded using QF miles should earn zero miles and zero SCs since it books into U class

It is impossible to just ignore the fare basis, since it is the fare basis which defines the fare class and it is the fare class which determines the eligable earnings

Dave

Traveloguy

Again I am going to politely disagree with you on this one.

UCs etc on a home carrier is easy to deal with as the system can be programmed to recognise an upgrade and still remember the original fare class.

Also I could be wrong but I believe KUPs earn 1.5 EQPs whereas normal K class fares earn 1.0 EQPs. That therefore leads one to believe that AA flyers do well using KUP fares too as they get the A class points.

Dave Noble

The QF system also distinguishes upgrades on AA too. If you upgrade a LONE4 using an eVIP from LHR-MIA to C and MIA-ORD-HNL to A class, the number of miles earned will be approximately 4933 and the SC earning would be 80 rather than earning approximately 13,694 miles and 420SCs that it would do if treated as business and first class

It used to be a great way of earning status credits until QF fixed the system such that it distinguished genuine A vs mileage upgrade A on AA. upgraded A used to credit as 1st class and upgraded C ,strangely, credited as full economy

I do hope that they keep it earning as it has done; there are some blindingly cheap little flights to get a decent SC boost when needed

Dave

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I can easily distinguish between the two situations here... when using UGs, or eVIPs or whatever, it is an additional component to the original fare. The original fare determins the eligible booking class (as determinbed by the fare basis). If you did not have an eVIP, then you would be booking, and entitled, to travel only in economy. And you earn those miles.

With the YUPs/KUPs, you are booking into First without any additional action on your behalf (or payment of any form such as an upgrade certificate). Even the AA website confirms the 'Fly First for Coach' and says the eligible booking class for the fare is A or P.

Perhaps it is better to think the error was in the eVIPs crediting additional SCs than to think YUPs and KUPs are incorrect.

I can also easily reconcile the QF terms and conditions which you pointed out mention 'fare class'.

As Traveloguy pointed out - the fare basis is a set of rules. These determine the class of travel for the fare paid (= fare class). The fare class is the eligible booking class. A DONEx fare basis states internal US flights can be booked into A. The fare class for that is then A, and the eligible SCs are for A. This is reflected in the airline earning table at the very end of the QF Ts&Cs which refer to the eligible booking class.


Regards

LME FF

Dave Noble

You can only book into A if there is both Y and A availability ( as detailed by Kiwi Flyer and inability to change to a flight which had A class but no Y class available) since it technically is booked into Y and immediately upgraded for no cost into A. This is no different to the procedure used for eVIPs and miles and does make it a free upgrade to 1st on a coach fare ( fitting in with the name "first for coach" ) rather than a straight 1st class booking and so quite reasonably caught by the upgrade caveats in the T&Cs

With DONEs, I do see a difference in that they are booked straight into A

In the end, it matters not what either of us think, but what the QF system decides to credit as and if they do change it, that there is nothing that can be done about it if they elect to class it as a free upgrade

Dave

RichardMEL

umm am I right in understanding that the way to book a xUP fare on AA is similar to UA where you do a search on discounted/restricted F rather than Y? Seems to me you're looking for a F fare in the first place, and the xUP gets you there so shouldn't it credit as F? Forgetting that most of us are obsessed to the minute detail of fare codes, buckets, fare basis etc.. Imagine you are Josephine Ordinary and you go to book a ticket in a discounted F, then get credit in Y (and in the OP's case, several flights are in Y and some in F) - I'd see no reason why you couldn't call QFF and ask what the deal was and that they should "All" be F, since originally what was bought was a F fare with the expectation of F (remember, I am saying this as your average traveller, not a FT geek who would care about the argument about "booking into Y with an upgrade to A" etc).

So I think the OP would be within rights to call QFF and put it to them that way. In fact I would suggest NOT quoting fare rules and buckets to them - that just clues the agent in that you have some real idea and might be trying to get around a system.... I'd just say "I booked this ticket as a discounted First fare and 2 of the legs(or however many) were posted as Y, and I was definately in first class(offer bp stubs) so how come it isn't posting as F like the others?"

Just a thought.

number_6

No, that is not correct. aa.com returns YUP and KUP fares if you search for "unrestricted economy" (not returned if searching for "restricted economy"). It also returns them if you search for "restricted First"; they are not returned if you search for "unrestricted First". Most YUP/KUP are bought via corporate travel agents and not on the web, though. Personally I find the argument "I thought I bought an F fare" to be a bit ridiculous. But now many of these fares are booking into P and not A on AA; perhaps that will help in getting the F SCs. The airlines do like to create confusion with their fare codes.

abcedaria

Just as a question...are YUP fares still crediting as F? I'm thinking of giving it a go, and was wondering if anyone has some recent experience....

thanks!

woodg

As at Nov 2006 they were.

NM

If you travel in the F cabin then they post as either A or P class which counts for First Class Status Credits. If you change your flight and there is no A/P available on your chosen flight then you end up travelling in Y, then they post as Y.