Kiwi Flyer

Then again your travel seems to be sufficient to fairly easily requalify.

NM

Not really. One trip in 12 months ... and that was credited to AA to qualify and renew AA Plat status. QF Plat good for another 13 months though.

abcedaria

Issues issues and more wonderful issues.

The family member I wanted to set this all up for is in the midst of their status run, and their first flight HNL-LAX has posted points, but only at full economy rate. The ticket and Itinerary has the class listed as A. Has anyone else had this problem? And is it likely that a call to QF will sort it out? Or will it be six months of endless arguing to be told in the end to sod off?

Thanks all!

number_6

That is the correct crediting, YUP/KUP fare is a full economy fare. The upgrade to F is complementary but not guaranteed. I did warn many months ago that QF was fixing their software bug which caused YUP to credit as F (erroneously). I doubt you will get much success in arguing that an economy fare should get F status credits because QF used to do that in the past, and it is unfair that others should get the points in the past and now they have fixed it to be correct and you don't. But I suppose you could try arguing that you thought it was an F fare (unfortunately QF will see Y as the fare basis, and AA will confirm that if QF contacts them, also the receipt for the ticket will also show the fare basis as a Y or K fare, and not F -- so basically there is no documentation to prove your case, it all indicates full economy. This has always been the risk with the YUP/KUP fares, it was a sweet deal while it lasted (and apparently BA has not fixed this bug yet, so they do credit as F to BAEC).

AA has an unfortunate triple use of "A" as a booking code. The primary usage (99%) is as an upgrade class (and that is why they show A), so that A is not mileage earning (the underlying fare code is). AA also uses it for Oneworld products, such as OWE tickets (which also have A as the farecode). And finally AA sells some deep-discount F as A (but that has F as the fare code). So A by itself is meaningless, the underlying fare code must be considered.

Kiwi Flyer

If it is a change, rather than a one-off bug, then it is a very recent change. My YUP earlier this month posted to QFF as first.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Sorry to disagree number_6 but the terms and conditions of the QF programme state:

Eligible Booking Class (then list AFP as First Class for American)

YUPs and KUPs book automatically into A class at the time of booking. The eligible booking class for these tickets is A class, and Y class only if the pax decides to standby for another flight where A class is not available.

The Qantas FF programme does not credit flights on the fare basis unless you get an op up. Otherwise, if you have a RTW booked in J/D, which allows all US travel in A (First Class), you would only get credited with J/D credits/mileage. You don't. The ticket is issued as a DONEx (or whatever), but domestic travel books into A at time of booking if available, and that's the credits you get.

Conversely, if you book an AONEx, intra-European travel is in C/D class, but you don't get First Class credits, only those for business.

Again, I disagree that the upgrade to First on the YUPs/KUPs is complimentary and not guaranteed. You cannot, as far as I am aware, book a YUP or KUP into any other class but A when you make the reservation. It has to book directly into that class. Booking Y class can only be done later, eg if you change your schedule and elect to standby for an earlier/later flight.

To the post immeditaely before this one - would be interesting to note if the flight HNL-LAX was changed? Did they fly in First?

Me thinks QF would have to change their terms and conditions if they were going to change the earning from eligible booking class to fare basis.

Happy to discuss though.

With regards

LME FF

Dave Noble

If QF is classing them as an economy fare with an upgrade to 1st class ( which is nor an unreasonable assertion given it being an economy fare basis ) then the terms and conditions explicitly cover it

It also fits in with AAs description of the fares as being "First for Coach" ( see http://www.aa.com/content/agency/New...aug_2006.jhtml )

I am no more surprised that this change could take place than #6 especially given how eVIP and mileage upgrade SC earning has been "fixed" so as to only accrue at the fare paid rate, though more examples would be needed to see whether this is just a oneoff glitch or whether it is a fix to the SC giveaway by QF

Dave

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Dave - how so? The eligible booking class for a YUP/KUP is A. As you posted I was editing my post so you may not have seen it - you cannot book a YUP/KUP into Y class at the time of the original booking. I can only go into A.

A = First Class under the QFFF.

Qantas does not credit by way of fare basis as per their terms and conditions.

Just edited to add - the link you provided Dave clearly states:
fare types will continue to apply.

Regards

LME FF

Dave Noble

The booking class for a mileage upgrade is booked into A class and, under your interpretation , would be eligable for F miles and SCs which they no longer accrue

In the T&Cs (19.1.2) it refers to FARE CLASS when referring to SC earning and the only document that I have found using that term from IATA describes the FARE CLASS as being the 1st character of the fare basis, which again would support the earning being as for K/Y


If QF are classing them as a Y or K fare with an upgrade to A in the same way as a mileage or eVIP upgrade ( which I would say is a reasonable assertion given (a) the booking class to fare basis relationship and (b) AAs description of the fares as being "1st for Coach" fares ) , then crediting as economy is already catered for in the T&Cs. There is reasonable justification for this imo however annoying it might be for those hunting cheap status.

Dave

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Perhaps we are agreeing here? Regardless of how Qantas classifies them (as a Y or K fare), it doesn't matter, because the eligible booking class is A. The eligible booking class is all that matters (that is where the 'UP' bit comes in and differentiates it from a normal Y or K class fare).

As you correctly point out, if you use an upgrade, the original ticket is only eligible, at the time of booking, to be booked in economy class (Y, B, H, K etc etc). You are then using the upgrade certificate to get another, higher class. However, that higher class was not the eligible booking class at the time of ticket purchase.

Regards

LME FF

Dave Noble

No. Not true. If I upgrade an AA flight before purchase, then the booking class will be A at time of purchase.

As I said, the T&Cs do not mention booking class , they refer to Fare Class . In IATA documents I have seen, it has defined Fare Class to be the 1st character of the Fare Basis. The words booking class are not used in the Terms and Conditions

The FARE CLASS would therefore be Y for YUP and K for KUP

Dave

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

If you have a look at the table at the very end of the Qantas FF T&Cs (under 'about the programme -> terms and conditions) it talks of 'eligible booking class' and 'fare class'. This is where my whole discussion has been based, as the YUP has the eligible booking class of A. Likewise, a DONEx fare has fare basis of D, but it is eligible to book into A and you get A class credits.

LME FF

Dave Noble

The relevent term for SC earning in the Terms and Conditions is clause 19.1.2

As you can see, it uses the term Fare Class and not booking class

The relevent term for mileage earning is Clause 9.5.1

The fare paid will be KUP or YUP and so is an economy fare and eligable to earn at K or Y fare. Based on this term I have successfully managed to get F miles when having ended up on a 2 class plane and relegated to J after contacting QFF

Hopefully, if this is how they will accrue YUP and KUP fares rather than a one off, that they won't next turn their attention to the last QFF earning on AA bonus of DONEx fares

Dave

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Well then I'm confused because either way there is a problem. Would an AONEx, with intra-European travel in C/D class be credited with First Class SCs? As the fare class for the ticket is A?

If however, you read it by the fare class per each coupon of the ticket (if you think of old paper tickets there was a small box saying 'Class') - then on intra-european tickets that your read C/D and the coupon would only attract biz class SCs.

But then again, if you book a YUP, the 'class' box on the coupon reads A.

LME FF

Traveloguy

I'm going to agree with you LME FF.

At the end of the day, the fare basis provides the rules of which describe what fare class a ticket is booked into. For example on AONEx fares, they go into A where available and D where not and give A or D credits where appropriate. The same goes for KUP/YUP etc fares where the fare basis rules (dispite the misleading name) state they book into A thus providing A status credits.

It has been reported on this forum in numerous threads that sometimes these miscredit on QF. A simple e-mail with copy of e-ticket and boarding passes should allow QF to manually correct how it is credited to one's membership.