Any Visible ID Changes Yet?
#76
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
Good idea....
I think the way to test this is for someone to buy a refundable ticket and show up without a wallet. If they let you through, just walk around for a few minutes and then walk out the exit. If they do hassle you or otherwise violate your civil rights, sue their sorry posteriors.
I think the way to test this is for someone to buy a refundable ticket and show up without a wallet. If they let you through, just walk around for a few minutes and then walk out the exit. If they do hassle you or otherwise violate your civil rights, sue their sorry posteriors.
#77
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
My understanding of the TSA's ability to implement such a policy is based on not a ton of knowledge, but on the previously revealed comment that the TSA has the ability to require ID based on existing legislation should they so choose. I'm not so sure that they have the legal right to distinguish between folks who choose to not show ID and folks who lost their ID. That seems very arbitrary and outside the scope of the legislation used to establish the organization. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
#78
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
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I went through LAX Terminal 6-8 today. I used my official (brown) passport for a domestic destination. No hassles from the dweeb TSA document checker. I even had a paper clip restraining the visa pages, so the only page he could access was the picture. He shined the loupe for a fraction of a second. I grieve for our country.
Are passports printed/produced with a UV reactive feature?
#80
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,972
Any measures ?
That piece of legislation is yet another example of the hasty manner in which the TSA was hatched (spawned is perhaps better), without the ramifications having been thought through. It doesn't specify, hopefully because it's blatantly obvious, that these "measures" can not violate the Constitution. We won't know the answer to that until someone challenges it, and maybe not even then if the courts buckle under to the WOT. Again.
#81
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
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Okay I'm going on 3 hours of sleep...at first I thought put the ID in an envelope and mail it (same as FedExing the wallet) but that's not the implication. So just have it sealed inside an envelope with a stamp affixed but don't mail it? What does that do?
Checked the baby's passport out with a UV light.
#82




Join Date: May 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: UA gold
Posts: 264
I'm not entirely sure, but isn't it illegal for anyone except the recipient, sender, and the USPS (to inspect and/or attempt to determine destination address) to open mail?
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Even if they check ID, they don't necessarily know if someone is on the no-fly list or not.
The US government blacklists as they are applied to aviation are quite incompetently managed anyway and their implementation even -- hard as it may be to see -- more retarded.
Have you thought about why are people on a government no-fly list if they aren't guilty enough to be prosecuted for a crime and convicted? This kind of nonsense of denying otherwise free US persons travel rights domestically needs to be re-thought -- actually they need to think first.
The US government blacklists as they are applied to aviation are quite incompetently managed anyway and their implementation even -- hard as it may be to see -- more retarded.
Have you thought about why are people on a government no-fly list if they aren't guilty enough to be prosecuted for a crime and convicted? This kind of nonsense of denying otherwise free US persons travel rights domestically needs to be re-thought -- actually they need to think first.
#84
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gotham City
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where it gets tricky is the authorization...you can authorize me to open your mail, or your secretary, or your SO, neighbor or a bum. or the TSA. i'm not a lawyer, but i wonder if this would hold up, because they might say you have to open the envelope or allow us to do it, or else you can't fly
#85




Join Date: May 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: UA gold
Posts: 264
where it gets tricky is the authorization...you can authorize me to open your mail, or your secretary, or your SO, neighbor or a bum. or the TSA. i'm not a lawyer, but i wonder if this would hold up, because they might say you have to open the envelope or allow us to do it, or else you can't fly
#86
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
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From Wikipedia...Documents cannot be read by anyone other than the receiver; for instance, in the United States it is a violation of federal law for anyone other than the receiver to open mail. However, exceptions do exist, such as postcards, which can be read by the postman for the purpose of identifying the sender and receiver. For mail contained within an envelope, there are legal provisions in some jurisdictions allowing the recording identities.[13] The privacy of correspondence is guaranteed by the Mexican Constitution, and is alluded to in the European Convention of Human Rights[14] and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.[13] According to the laws in the relevant jurisdiction, correspondence may be openly or covertly opened or the contents determined via some other method, by the police or other authorities in some cases relating to their relevance to an alleged or suspected criminal conspiracy, although black chambers (largely in the past, though there is apparently some continuance of their use today) opened and open letters extralegally. Military mail to and from soldiers on active deployment is more often subject to strict censorship. International mail and packages are subjects to customs control.
Also, as eluded on the other no ID-no fly thread, a government agency (TSA, police) would need probable cause and a warrant to open US mail. hmmmm I wonder who would win in a showdown: TSA or the US Postal Inspection Service?Supposedly, children under X years of age are supposed to be automatically de-selected as SSSS by the airline agent. (X=10?)
#87
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posts: 299
Sorry to disagree, but unless its actually mailed, and thus in the possession of the USPS, it's not mail. Simply putting it into an envelope and affixing a stamp does not make it mail. It makes it an envelope that is intended to be mailed, but not yet applicable to the rules below.
Okay, I've had a nap
From Wikipedia...
Supposedly, children under X years of age are supposed to be automatically de-selected as SSSS by the airline agent. (X=10?)
From Wikipedia...Documents cannot be read by anyone other than the receiver; for instance, in the United States it is a violation of federal law for anyone other than the receiver to open mail. However, exceptions do exist, such as postcards, which can be read by the postman for the purpose of identifying the sender and receiver. For mail contained within an envelope, there are legal provisions in some jurisdictions allowing the recording identities.[13] The privacy of correspondence is guaranteed by the Mexican Constitution, and is alluded to in the European Convention of Human Rights[14] and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.[13] According to the laws in the relevant jurisdiction, correspondence may be openly or covertly opened or the contents determined via some other method, by the police or other authorities in some cases relating to their relevance to an alleged or suspected criminal conspiracy, although black chambers (largely in the past, though there is apparently some continuance of their use today) opened and open letters extralegally. Military mail to and from soldiers on active deployment is more often subject to strict censorship. International mail and packages are subjects to customs control.
Also, as eluded on the other no ID-no fly thread, a government agency (TSA, police) would need probable cause and a warrant to open US mail. hmmmm I wonder who would win in a showdown: TSA or the US Postal Inspection Service?Supposedly, children under X years of age are supposed to be automatically de-selected as SSSS by the airline agent. (X=10?)
#88
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gotham City
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no offense to those that have responded to my thoughts on the opening of the letter (which of course holds your DL, proving not only that you can drive, but that you're not a terrorist), but to the many lawyers on here, how does something like this play out in your mind?
#89
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 63
Well, as I speculated elsewhere, I believe in the next 3-5 years we'll move to some sort of registered traveler program in which screening will be greatly expedited, if not eliminated altogether, for participants.
The key to making this work is to be able to identify passengers with a high degree of accuracy. I believe what we're seeing now is TSA's attempts to "get the bugs out of the system" before any drastic, and potentially risky, changes are implemented.
The key to making this work is to be able to identify passengers with a high degree of accuracy. I believe what we're seeing now is TSA's attempts to "get the bugs out of the system" before any drastic, and potentially risky, changes are implemented.
#90
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 562
...where it gets tricky is the authorization...you can authorize me to open your mail, or your secretary, or your SO, neighbor or a bum. or the TSA. i'm not a lawyer, but i wonder if this would hold up, because they might say you have to open the envelope or allow us to do it, or else you can't fly

