British tourists turn their back on America
Jul 29, 2007, 3:47 am
#91
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Huh. In my recent experience (i.e. since the new terminal opened), TLV's a great airport to fly from. Security is a breeze compared to any major US airport (to say nothing of LHR) and unlike with the TSA, the experience is consistently courteous and devoid of pointless theatre.
Now, I might have (OMNI-appropriate) reasons not to want to spend money in Israel but airport security hassles haven't been a factor for years.
The US does not have a monopoly on surly, intimidating border agents. As an American, I regularly get grilled at immigration flying into the UK or Canada, coming close to being refused entry at LHR some years ago (while studying at Oxford popped down to Paris one weekend and hadn't packed proof of my enrollment.)
Never had a problem outside the commonwealth (modulo the cartons of Marlboros that were occasionally necessary to get an entry visa in third-world nations). Not sure why.
Now, I might have (OMNI-appropriate) reasons not to want to spend money in Israel but airport security hassles haven't been a factor for years.
The US does not have a monopoly on surly, intimidating border agents. As an American, I regularly get grilled at immigration flying into the UK or Canada, coming close to being refused entry at LHR some years ago (while studying at Oxford popped down to Paris one weekend and hadn't packed proof of my enrollment.)
Never had a problem outside the commonwealth (modulo the cartons of Marlboros that were occasionally necessary to get an entry visa in third-world nations). Not sure why.
I've had similar experiences as you with UK immigration, but still, the Americans still take first prize.
Jul 29, 2007, 4:50 am
#92
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"Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence" I can understand, but there is something fundamentally wrong in my view about the "have you ever been arrested" question. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Last edited by christep; Jul 29, 2007 at 6:58 pm Reason: typo
Jul 29, 2007, 5:22 am
#93
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Out of the five people in my office two will not go to the USA unless forced to by business reasons.
I'm not one of these people, as I currently value the cheapness of the shopping in the USA higher than the rude treatment at the border. When the price difference slides in the other direction I shall be reviewing my position. Hopefully some of the madness will have receded by then.
I'm not one of these people, as I currently value the cheapness of the shopping in the USA higher than the rude treatment at the border. When the price difference slides in the other direction I shall be reviewing my position. Hopefully some of the madness will have receded by then.
Jul 29, 2007, 5:24 am
#94
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
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Errrr..... what????
What freedoms do you have that are not enjoyed by residents of Canada, Australia, New Zealands and the majority of countries in the European Union?
"The land of the free" is just a myth.
Jul 29, 2007, 5:35 am
#95
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I had a client who informed me her husband needed a US visa (UK citizen) as he had been breathalised and got a positive reading so was arrested and fingerprinted. Blood tests showed him to be under the limit and he was not prosecuted however because he was fingerprinted by the police-he needs a visa to enter the US. I queried this as I believed that without a prosecution it wouldn't be needed but the US embassy in London confirmed this as correct.
Going back to the tourism issue and funding of advertising. There are plenty of "exciting" tourism options in the US- Ranch holidays, Whitewater rafting at the Grand Canyon, etc but go into any high street travel agency and the offerings won't extend beyond Disney, New York shopping and other fairly run of the mill types of holiday. In part this is due to the limited number of holiday companies the chain agencies will sell (and the reason I'm getting out of the business before I die of boredom and frustration) but a larger part is lack of promotion and incentive from the US tourism authorities to encourage "the chosen few" to offer more than a fraction of the options available. Holidaymakers are choosing other destinations out of lack of options and information -especially at the moment where the weak dollar could be a tool to increase tourism but is completely ignored by the US tourism funding authorities. The UK travel market is traditionally driven as a package -many consumers still want the security of booking with an agency that does it all rather than building their own holiday-but it many cases the UK travel industry is ignoring this growth area in part because the US tourism authorities won't share the financial load in promotion and education.. Everyone loses-except the holidaymaker brave enough to buck tradition and book independently on-line and many UK consumers still regard this as "unsafe" having been used to the security blanket of ABTA bonding and travel agencies.
Going back to the tourism issue and funding of advertising. There are plenty of "exciting" tourism options in the US- Ranch holidays, Whitewater rafting at the Grand Canyon, etc but go into any high street travel agency and the offerings won't extend beyond Disney, New York shopping and other fairly run of the mill types of holiday. In part this is due to the limited number of holiday companies the chain agencies will sell (and the reason I'm getting out of the business before I die of boredom and frustration) but a larger part is lack of promotion and incentive from the US tourism authorities to encourage "the chosen few" to offer more than a fraction of the options available. Holidaymakers are choosing other destinations out of lack of options and information -especially at the moment where the weak dollar could be a tool to increase tourism but is completely ignored by the US tourism funding authorities. The UK travel market is traditionally driven as a package -many consumers still want the security of booking with an agency that does it all rather than building their own holiday-but it many cases the UK travel industry is ignoring this growth area in part because the US tourism authorities won't share the financial load in promotion and education.. Everyone loses-except the holidaymaker brave enough to buck tradition and book independently on-line and many UK consumers still regard this as "unsafe" having been used to the security blanket of ABTA bonding and travel agencies.
Jul 29, 2007, 3:17 pm
#96
Join Date: Sep 2006
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What freedoms do you have that are not enjoyed by residents of Canada, Australia, New Zealands and the majority of countries in the European Union?
Jul 29, 2007, 3:34 pm
#97
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The increase of intra-Europe travel by air has played its part in displacing travel to the US, but that's not all of it. Stories about being haraSSSSed at US airports, about DHS/CBP interactions and other such things plays a role in the decline too. Without the cheap Bush peso the number of British visitors would be down substantially more than they are.
Jul 29, 2007, 6:42 pm
#99
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"The UK travel market is traditionally driven as a package -many consumers still want the security of booking with an agency that does it all rather than building their own holiday-but it many cases the UK travel industry is ignoring this growth area in part because the US tourism authorities won't share the financial load in promotion and education.. Everyone loses-except the holidaymaker brave enough to buck tradition and book independently on-line and many UK consumers still regard this as "unsafe" having been used to the security blanket of ABTA bonding and travel agencies."
That may indeed be it: America isn't a great "package holiday" destination. Our travel really isn't geared that way. You pretty much do it yourself, and the internet has further encouraged this trend.
As far as Brits not having "enough information," well, I'd say that's pretty much their own fault. I mean, the amount of English-language information about American travel available on the internet is nothing short of breathtaking. I can pretty much find info on ANYTHING related to travel these days. Of course, there has to be a DESIRE to read this information.
As far as freedoms go, hey, we all have our biases, but I think the freedom to pursue one's individual happiness -- and have a realistic shot of achieving it, whatever one's goals -- is still America's greatest strength. Others seem to think so, too, because despite all the trouble we give prospective immigrants, they're still flocking here in droves.
That may indeed be it: America isn't a great "package holiday" destination. Our travel really isn't geared that way. You pretty much do it yourself, and the internet has further encouraged this trend.
As far as Brits not having "enough information," well, I'd say that's pretty much their own fault. I mean, the amount of English-language information about American travel available on the internet is nothing short of breathtaking. I can pretty much find info on ANYTHING related to travel these days. Of course, there has to be a DESIRE to read this information.
As far as freedoms go, hey, we all have our biases, but I think the freedom to pursue one's individual happiness -- and have a realistic shot of achieving it, whatever one's goals -- is still America's greatest strength. Others seem to think so, too, because despite all the trouble we give prospective immigrants, they're still flocking here in droves.
Jul 29, 2007, 6:45 pm
#100
Join Date: Jun 2007
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As far as freedoms go, hey, we all have our biases, but I think the freedom to pursue one's individual happiness -- and have a realistic shot of achieving it, whatever one's goals -- is still America's greatest strength. Others seem to think so, too, because despite all the trouble we give prospective immigrants, they're still flocking here in droves.
Jul 29, 2007, 8:31 pm
#101
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 376
We are also free to sit around all day and blame everyone for our problems and depend on the government to pay us and raise our children...but that probably is not what you meant either.
Jul 30, 2007, 2:56 am
#103
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The other poster may be referring to the fact that the entire ordeal of applying for and obtaining a visa, traveling to and being processed into the U.S. impacts different groups of people at different nodes.
Any traveler from what the U.S. perceives as a developing country will find the entire experience to be extremely demeaning and frustrating. Most travelers from countries the U.S. perceives as being developed and "friendly" face minimal hardship but this hardship occurs at the node involving admission to the U.S.
I too know of many people who no longer travel to the U.S. or who have chosen to study/work elsewhere - America's loss, not theirs. However, as I mentioned earlier - every man has his price. Some are willing to put up with the hassles discussed here because they feel the rewards outweigh the pain and because the cost of a U.S. vacation may be substantially lower.
Any traveler from what the U.S. perceives as a developing country will find the entire experience to be extremely demeaning and frustrating. Most travelers from countries the U.S. perceives as being developed and "friendly" face minimal hardship but this hardship occurs at the node involving admission to the U.S.
I too know of many people who no longer travel to the U.S. or who have chosen to study/work elsewhere - America's loss, not theirs. However, as I mentioned earlier - every man has his price. Some are willing to put up with the hassles discussed here because they feel the rewards outweigh the pain and because the cost of a U.S. vacation may be substantially lower.
cheers
Howie
Jul 30, 2007, 6:24 am
#104
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That said, I can imagine being happy elsewhere. Just as I can imagine that Swedes are pretty happy in Sweden (although we certainly know that they are suffering under a repressive regime with few personal freedoms).
Your suggestion that the influx of immigrants must mean that the US is such a great place is flawed. You do read the paper, yes? You do read about immigration issues related to various western European nations, yes?
Jul 30, 2007, 6:47 am
#105
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Blood tests showed him to be under the limit and he was not prosecuted however because he was fingerprinted by the police-he needs a visa to enter the US. I queried this as I believed that without a prosecution it wouldn't be needed but the US embassy in London confirmed this as correct.