How long will TSA be around? Forever?
Dec 21, 2006, 10:56 am
#46
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
I never received any attitude from the airport screeners except for that brief period of time after 9/11 when some imbecile (Mineta) decided to engage in Shoe Harassment and before the abomination that is the TSA was created.
Prior to 9/11, I never, ever got the sick, un-American attitude that is now a fixture at our nation's checkpoints.
Prior to 9/11, I never, ever got the sick, un-American attitude that is now a fixture at our nation's checkpoints.
Dec 21, 2006, 10:59 am
#47
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
I, too, agree with what has been said here. I never encountered any attitude from the private screeners until 9/22/2001 when they where "under new management" (and the first time I flew after the 9/11 incidents). I did have a problem understanding some of them, but I would take that any day compared to the awful arrogance, attitude and inconsitencies I get from the "professional" screeners we have today. Granted there are some that are very good and some are just OK, but it is the rotten apples in the group that destroy it for everybody else.
Dec 21, 2006, 10:59 am
#48
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
I, too, agree with what has been said here. I never encountered any attitude from the private screeners until 9/22/2001 when they where "under new management" (and the first time I flew after the 9/11 incidents). I did have a problem understanding some of them, but I would take that any day compared to the awful arrogance, attitude and inconsitencies I get from the "professional" screeners we have today. Granted there are some that are very good and some are just OK, but it is the rotten apples in the group that destroy it for everybody else.
Dec 21, 2006, 11:01 am
#49
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
And I will ask you once again, tell me how to get from our 50th state to the mainland using one of your message lines.
Dec 21, 2006, 11:04 am
#50
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
We pay the security fee on each ticket, which is what funds TSOs' salaries. If a TSO does not fly for pleasure, then s/he is not paying for their salary.
And I will ask you once again, tell me how to get from our 50th state to the mainland using one of your message lines.
And I will ask you once again, tell me how to get from our 50th state to the mainland using one of your message lines.
Oh, take a boat! Better yet, just comply and quit crying...
Dec 21, 2006, 12:11 pm
#51
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Really...well interesting you say that since the plethora of bad apples in your organization is exactly what created the hostile attitude you experience on the job.
So....don't like taking it from us? Then quit and go work in another job. You might as well...as long as there are nasty TSA screeners dishing out their filthy attitude, I will be delivering it right back to them.
So....don't like taking it from us? Then quit and go work in another job. You might as well...as long as there are nasty TSA screeners dishing out their filthy attitude, I will be delivering it right back to them.
Dec 21, 2006, 12:44 pm
#52
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Are we talking about the TSA as an organization? I don't see them "going away" anytime soon as such.
Or, was that post meant to refer to the TSA "corporate culture" of nasty, suspicious, petty, anti-passenger attitude? That part, and I'm truly discouraged to have to admit this, will likely be with us another couple of years. I was frankly hoping that the rest of the world would be able to drag the TSA back to the "good old days" by now.
Or, was that post meant to refer to the TSA "corporate culture" of nasty, suspicious, petty, anti-passenger attitude? That part, and I'm truly discouraged to have to admit this, will likely be with us another couple of years. I was frankly hoping that the rest of the world would be able to drag the TSA back to the "good old days" by now.
Dec 21, 2006, 1:01 pm
#53
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
And you know that how?
Take a boat -- what a reasonable alternative.
Do you not understand how the business world operates?
The primary complaints by regulars on this forum are how TSO's do not follow SOP. And as for the other concerns, if you can show how the shoe x-rays and liquid ban provide much more than kabuki security while TSA still fails to screen most cargo and fails the tests that have seen the light of day, we'll listen.
Remember, the TSA only saw fit to ban liquids 12 years after the only incident that damaged a plane. And it took the TSA at least a year after Richard Reid before they started x-raying shoes. And Richard Reid is the only person who has ever even tried this.
Take a boat -- what a reasonable alternative.
Do you not understand how the business world operates?The primary complaints by regulars on this forum are how TSO's do not follow SOP. And as for the other concerns, if you can show how the shoe x-rays and liquid ban provide much more than kabuki security while TSA still fails to screen most cargo and fails the tests that have seen the light of day, we'll listen.
Remember, the TSA only saw fit to ban liquids 12 years after the only incident that damaged a plane. And it took the TSA at least a year after Richard Reid before they started x-raying shoes. And Richard Reid is the only person who has ever even tried this.
Dec 21, 2006, 1:30 pm
#54
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We've been posting a lot regarding the feasibility of mixing liquids - I'm curious to know the actual possibility of hiding explosives in one's shoes for in-flight detonation?
Dec 21, 2006, 2:11 pm
#55
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"So not true. There was no shoe carnival before. There was no haraSSSSment screening at the passenger screening checkpoints. There was no boarding pass/gate pass requirement to go through the screening checkpoint like other passengers. Swiss army pocket knives were not contraband. And that's just the beginning of the list. "
You were still going through an xray machine and limiting what you were taking in carryon. Removing and putting on a jacket and shoes takes what 20 seconds? HaraSSSSment? The last time this happened to me (gold to platinum traveller) was 2003 and before that 2001. In either case, it didn't take very long. The amount of time you probably spend .....ing about these things on flyertalk dwarfs the amount of extra time that security screening takes.
As for pocket knives, they never should have been allowed on and not every jurisdiction was allowing people to go beyond security. In reality, is there really a need?
The actual screening process takes me about 30 seconds added to the ~5 minute lineup for my elite line. Hardly worth the endless complaining that you get on here. As for the TSA, do you think things will change if it was a different agency? They'd probably keep the same people. A private company would probably hire all of the TSA screeners. You can call it the STA, BDS, NJO, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever you want. A screening organization is rightly going to exist in some form or another. They will continue to search bags and people's person and will continue to limit items that you bring on board.
You were still going through an xray machine and limiting what you were taking in carryon. Removing and putting on a jacket and shoes takes what 20 seconds? HaraSSSSment? The last time this happened to me (gold to platinum traveller) was 2003 and before that 2001. In either case, it didn't take very long. The amount of time you probably spend .....ing about these things on flyertalk dwarfs the amount of extra time that security screening takes.
As for pocket knives, they never should have been allowed on and not every jurisdiction was allowing people to go beyond security. In reality, is there really a need?
The actual screening process takes me about 30 seconds added to the ~5 minute lineup for my elite line. Hardly worth the endless complaining that you get on here. As for the TSA, do you think things will change if it was a different agency? They'd probably keep the same people. A private company would probably hire all of the TSA screeners. You can call it the STA, BDS, NJO, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever you want. A screening organization is rightly going to exist in some form or another. They will continue to search bags and people's person and will continue to limit items that you bring on board.
Dec 21, 2006, 2:38 pm
#56
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"So not true. There was no shoe carnival before. There was no haraSSSSment screening at the passenger screening checkpoints. There was no boarding pass/gate pass requirement to go through the screening checkpoint like other passengers. Swiss army pocket knives were not contraband. And that's just the beginning of the list. "
You were still going through an xray machine and limiting what you were taking in carryon. Removing and putting on a jacket and shoes takes what 20 seconds? HaraSSSSment? The last time this happened to me (gold to platinum traveller) was 2003 and before that 2001. In either case, it didn't take very long. The amount of time you probably spend .....ing about these things on flyertalk dwarfs the amount of extra time that security screening takes.
As for pocket knives, they never should have been allowed on and not every jurisdiction was allowing people to go beyond security. In reality, is there really a need?
The actual screening process takes me about 30 seconds added to the ~5 minute lineup for my elite line. Hardly worth the endless complaining that you get on here. As for the TSA, do you think things will change if it was a different agency? They'd probably keep the same people. A private company would probably hire all of the TSA screeners. You can call it the STA, BDS, NJO, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever you want. A screening organization is rightly going to exist in some form or another. They will continue to search bags and people's person and will continue to limit items that you bring on board.
You were still going through an xray machine and limiting what you were taking in carryon. Removing and putting on a jacket and shoes takes what 20 seconds? HaraSSSSment? The last time this happened to me (gold to platinum traveller) was 2003 and before that 2001. In either case, it didn't take very long. The amount of time you probably spend .....ing about these things on flyertalk dwarfs the amount of extra time that security screening takes.
As for pocket knives, they never should have been allowed on and not every jurisdiction was allowing people to go beyond security. In reality, is there really a need?
The actual screening process takes me about 30 seconds added to the ~5 minute lineup for my elite line. Hardly worth the endless complaining that you get on here. As for the TSA, do you think things will change if it was a different agency? They'd probably keep the same people. A private company would probably hire all of the TSA screeners. You can call it the STA, BDS, NJO, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever you want. A screening organization is rightly going to exist in some form or another. They will continue to search bags and people's person and will continue to limit items that you bring on board.
Originally Posted by thegeneral
You were going through the same process (except for the liquid/gel thing) long before 9/11 and you'll be going through it long after. Whether the TSA does it or someone else it will be the same thing. We're not going to trust individuals to not bring prohibited items on board or to screen themselves.
Originally Posted by GUWonder
So not true. There was no shoe carnival before. There was no haraSSSSment screening at the passenger screening checkpoints. There was no boarding pass/gate pass requirement to go through the screening checkpoint like other passengers. Swiss army pocket knives were not contraband. And that's just the beginning of the list
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Originally Posted by thegeneral
You were going through the same process (except for the liquid/gel thing) long before 9/11 and you'll be going through it long after. Whether the TSA does it or someone else it will be the same thing. We're not going to trust individuals to not bring prohibited items on board or to screen themselves.
Originally Posted by thegeneral
You were going through the same process (except for the liquid/gel thing) long before 9/11 and you'll be going through it long after. Whether the TSA does it or someone else it will be the same thing. We're not going to trust individuals to not bring prohibited items on board or to screen themselves.
Post#55 in this thread should not distract from the recognition of inaccuracy that exists in a post which asserts that we were going through the same process before 9/11 as we are now. The fact is that the pre-9/11 process at US airports is not the same process as that which we have today. Different process steps, different settings, etc.
Dec 21, 2006, 2:43 pm
#57
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Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
"Is there really a need?" If that is your standard, then much of what we have here in the US fails that test. Need should not be the criteria unless we are willing to subject everything else to that standard.
Dec 21, 2006, 2:55 pm
#58
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nothing, nothing at all, just like there's nothing wrong with box cutters.
and before anyone says it couldnt happen again, why take the risk when
a) its not a medically or otherwise necessary to take onboard
b) its easily replacable at walmart etc
cheers.
and before anyone says it couldnt happen again, why take the risk when
a) its not a medically or otherwise necessary to take onboard
b) its easily replacable at walmart etc
cheers.
Dec 21, 2006, 3:24 pm
#59
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
Why don't we ban pens as well since they meet that criteria? And CO provides in FC a knife with serrations with my meal. Guess we need to do away with that too.a) Have you ever tried to open up those peanut packages onboard?
b) So each time I land, I need to spend time to find a Wal-Mart and go buy a knife that I then must leave behind when I head back home? How about doing some cost/benefit analysis on this. Also, I haven't found too many Wal-Marts in the Borough of Manhattan.
Dec 21, 2006, 3:34 pm
#60
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Why take the risk?
because its actually been shown to be possible.
Why don't we ban pens as well since they meet that criteria? And CO provides in FC a knife with serrations with my meal. Guess we need to do away with that too.
risk / benefit analysis doesnt appear to waartant that.
b) So each time I land, I need to spend time to find a Wal-Mart and go buy a knife that I then must leave behind when I head back home? How about doing some cost/benefit analysis on this. Also, I haven't found too many Wal-Marts in the Borough of Manhattan.
since ive never purchased one, i wouldnt know the "best" places to a pocketknife so i just said "walmart" because ... well, its walmart (notice the "etc"). im sure that in manhattan, you could find a street vendor peddling them.
and like the security guy in "s.w.a.t." said to the main bad guy, "next time mail it home"
because its actually been shown to be possible.
Why don't we ban pens as well since they meet that criteria? And CO provides in FC a knife with serrations with my meal. Guess we need to do away with that too.
risk / benefit analysis doesnt appear to waartant that.
b) So each time I land, I need to spend time to find a Wal-Mart and go buy a knife that I then must leave behind when I head back home? How about doing some cost/benefit analysis on this. Also, I haven't found too many Wal-Marts in the Borough of Manhattan.
since ive never purchased one, i wouldnt know the "best" places to a pocketknife so i just said "walmart" because ... well, its walmart (notice the "etc"). im sure that in manhattan, you could find a street vendor peddling them.
and like the security guy in "s.w.a.t." said to the main bad guy, "next time mail it home"