Problems getting a manual search @ LAS
Jan 26, 2006 | 10:35 pm
#76
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by michaelchertoff
Or, in other words, plugging the hole that does not bother you is good, but plugging the ones that do bother you are bad. Your constitutional argument will make sense when some court of ultimate jurisdiction agrees with your opinion. Till then, it's your opinion.
Jan 27, 2006 | 12:18 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by bdschobel
If the true goal is "safety," then a thorough hand screening does the job just fine. If the goal is merely following rules for the sake of following them, even when an alternative is just as good if not better, then the TSA is truly an organization of automatons.
Bruce
Bruce
...ETD screening does NOT detect guns, knives, etc...
That is the difference, and NO, hand screening does NOT do the job just fine.
At TSA just like ANY other Federal agency, you MUST follow the SOP or jeopardize your job!
Jan 27, 2006 | 12:20 pm
#79
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by bdschobel
After 3+ years, we have learned that showing the SOP to the public violates the SOP. Really! The height of irony! 
Many TSA employees (oh, wait, I almost forgot: "officers") have neither the interest nor the ability to understand their own rules. What most of them do well enough is follow the rules, without any need to understand them. Of course, many can't even do that!
If managers don't have any discretionary authority, then why does the TSA have managers? Just to hire people and make sure the shifts are properly staffed? I don't think so.
Bruce
Many TSA employees (oh, wait, I almost forgot: "officers") have neither the interest nor the ability to understand their own rules. What most of them do well enough is follow the rules, without any need to understand them. Of course, many can't even do that!
If managers don't have any discretionary authority, then why does the TSA have managers? Just to hire people and make sure the shifts are properly staffed? I don't think so.
Bruce
The FSD cannot even change or deviate from the SOP....
Jan 27, 2006 | 1:29 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Originally Posted by whatsinyourbag
...ETD screening does NOT detect guns, knives, etc...
That is the difference, and NO, hand screening does NOT do the job just fine.
At TSA just like ANY other Federal agency, you MUST follow the SOP or jeopardize your job!
That is the difference, and NO, hand screening does NOT do the job just fine.
At TSA just like ANY other Federal agency, you MUST follow the SOP or jeopardize your job!
And we all know that doesn't happen, so apparently people aren't too worried about their jobs. Maybe that's the problem.
Jan 27, 2006 | 4:13 pm
#82
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: YYC
Programs: AC*SE, Marco Polo Gold, SPG Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Bart
Still, you have those who will quibble over wording. I disagree that a TSA supervisor should show the SOP to a passenger on demand. However, I think TSA could do a better job of explaining things to passengers on request after it's been scrutinized by the legal advisors. In other words, TSA responds in writing as opposed to having one of its supervisors show the SOP to an unauthorized person. Members of the general public are unauthorized personnel.
I'm curious as why you think that showing a section of the SOP should never happen. Reviewing a specific section is not handing out full procedure manuals to every 'terrorist' so they can look for loopholes and to me, seeing that specific section of a SOP manual proves the agent has a clue what SOP really is, and is not just making it up as they go along The OP indicated that they did not know the real policy in this case an example of cases where inconsistent screening leads to misunderstanding. Sharing SOP on the spot resolves this concern. For travelers who had no previous misconception, it is even easier because they do not have to un-learn anything first.
Without a doubt, you will find the wanna-be-lawyer who will try to twist the wording of the SOP to mean what they want, however nothing will make them cooperate anyways. I cannot see how promising a written explanation some time (days/weeks) after their scheduled flight or a generic pamphlet would convince this type let it go and act 'normal'
Jan 28, 2006 | 5:39 am
#84
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
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Posts: 13,498
At EWR, I was told that the complaint form -- blank! -- is SSI and cannot be released to a passenger. We can look at it while we complete it, but we can't take it with us to complete later. SSI! 
Bruce
Bruce
Jan 29, 2006 | 5:59 pm
#87
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 18,093
I am typing this from the D concourse at LAS.
I went through security about 15 minutes ago. I had a disposable camera (with 800 ASA film) and I requested it to be hand-checked.
"It's okay to go through the x-ray" was the screener's response to my request.
"I don't want it to go through the x-ray."
"I said it is okay to go through the x-ray."
"But I don't want it to go through the x-ray, I want a hand inspection."
"It won't hurt your film, it can go through."
Lather, rinse, repeat...
Finally, another screener overheard this and said that she will do it for me.
We go over, it is done successfully (a full two minutes). I asked her why the hassle.
She said that it is safe for 800 and lower.
But if a passenger requests a hand inspection, why do you resist?
"It's a real pain to do it" was her response.
I went through security about 15 minutes ago. I had a disposable camera (with 800 ASA film) and I requested it to be hand-checked.
"It's okay to go through the x-ray" was the screener's response to my request.
"I don't want it to go through the x-ray."
"I said it is okay to go through the x-ray."
"But I don't want it to go through the x-ray, I want a hand inspection."
"It won't hurt your film, it can go through."
Lather, rinse, repeat...
Finally, another screener overheard this and said that she will do it for me.
We go over, it is done successfully (a full two minutes). I asked her why the hassle.
She said that it is safe for 800 and lower.
But if a passenger requests a hand inspection, why do you resist?
"It's a real pain to do it" was her response.
Jan 29, 2006 | 9:16 pm
#88
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Programs: DL PM / SPG Gold
Posts: 584
Originally Posted by iluv2fly
We go over, it is done successfully (a full two minutes). I asked her why the hassle.
She said that it is safe for 800 and lower.
But if a passenger requests a hand inspection, why do you resist?
"It's a real pain to do it" was her response.
She said that it is safe for 800 and lower.
But if a passenger requests a hand inspection, why do you resist?
"It's a real pain to do it" was her response.
