FlyerTalk Evangelist
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It seems to me that the screening manager inherently has the discretion that the supervisor does not have -- and exercised it. What's the problem?Originally Posted by Bart
...The screening manager is not part of the operational equation.
If I showed up at a checkpoint carrying the Hope Diamond (or some similarly valuable object) and requested a hand check, I would hope (pun intended!) that somebody would have the discretion to do exactly that! Some things are just too valuable to run through the x-ray machine -- or to put into checked baggage.
Bruce
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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This is another example of the weak leadership that still infests TSA.
A fool with a rule is a tool. That's the fundamental truth of a bureaucracies.Originally Posted by Bart
Supervisor dropped the ball and should have denied access. Sorry, folks, but the supervisor should have stuck to his guns rather than cave in like he did. I know this is not going to be a popular post, but the SOP clearly states that videotapes must be x-rayed. There are no exceptions.This is another example of the weak leadership that still infests TSA.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Sheesh, something came out in the passenger's favor and it's the collective TSA jocks that are in a knot in this string.
Is there really any other aspect of this that hasn't been covered?
Is there really any other aspect of this that hasn't been covered?
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Wouldn't denying access to the sterile area be tantamount to prohibiting a passenger to fly, since the passengers need to pass through the sterile areas to reach the plane?Originally Posted by eyecue
Also per federal law, the TSA cannot tell you that you cannot fly. They could in this case though deny the passenger access to the sterile area because the passenger wont comply with the requirement to have the vcr tapes x-rayed.
Mike
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Mike
It's the same veiled language that they use at shoe carnivals. They can't legally say (or so the TSAers here say) that you must remove your shoes. However, most shoe carnivals use the "We highly recommend that you remove your shoes" line and automatically send you to secondary if you don't. So they can't say it's required because they're not allowed, so they sidestep it with a "suggestion" that means exactly the same thing.Originally Posted by mikeef
Wouldn't denying access to the sterile area be tantamount to prohibiting a passenger to fly, since the passengers need to pass through the sterile areas to reach the plane?Mike
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Ah, that makes much more sense.Originally Posted by Bart
Just to clarify: the passenger's items would be denied access because they weren't screened properly. The passenger can still fly unless he refuses to be screened.
Mike
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Is there really any other aspect of this that hasn't been covered?
Hey man, I tried to end it by invoking Godwin's Law, but Bart, being the hardheaded fellow he is, totally missed the point.Originally Posted by LessO2
Sheesh, something came out in the passenger's favor and it's the collective TSA jocks that are in a knot in this string.Is there really any other aspect of this that hasn't been covered?
And, of course, is still able to explain why he follows the rule, other than the fact that the rule exists.
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Thank you. I mistakenly thought you were since you had quoted dgilman's "prove it" post. Originally Posted by docmonkey
I'm not calling you a liar; in fact, I believe you about existence of the videotape x-ray rule.
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What I'm saying is that people question and disbelieve TSA screeners when the meet them at the checkpoints because so many of the screeners lie about policy. Unfortunately, the management of the TSA is not concerned with their own credibility or the credibility of their employees. If they cared, they wouldn't allow screeners to shout "all shoes must come off (or you don't fly today)" at so many airports.
I agree and can understand this. It drives us crazy too when a passenger tells us how other places do things wrong; it shouldn't be that difficult.What I'm saying is that people question and disbelieve TSA screeners when the meet them at the checkpoints because so many of the screeners lie about policy. Unfortunately, the management of the TSA is not concerned with their own credibility or the credibility of their employees. If they cared, they wouldn't allow screeners to shout "all shoes must come off (or you don't fly today)" at so many airports.
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This is another example of the weak leadership that still infests TSA.
Oh most definately Bart. What got me was the fact that whoever the supe talked to on the phone apparently called him a moron, when the moron was the person on the phone! If the supe was unclear about the policy he should have, 1. consulted the SOP (the policy about tapes, VCRs, and camcorders is very clear) and 2. scheduled some training time for himself for some intensive SOP study.Originally Posted by Bart
Supervisor dropped the ball and should have denied access. Sorry, folks, but the supervisor should have stuck to his guns rather than cave in like he did. I know this is not going to be a popular post, but the SOP clearly states that videotapes must be x-rayed. There are no exceptions.This is another example of the weak leadership that still infests TSA.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Nobody wants to answer my questions:
1. Doesn't the screening manager have the explicit authority to overrule the supervisor?
2. What if someone came through with the Hope Diamond or some similarly valuable item and asked for a hand-screening?
What's the big deal?
Bruce
1. Doesn't the screening manager have the explicit authority to overrule the supervisor?
2. What if someone came through with the Hope Diamond or some similarly valuable item and asked for a hand-screening?
What's the big deal?
Bruce
Suspended
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1. Doesn't the screening manager have the explicit authority to overrule the supervisor?
2. What if someone came through with the Hope Diamond or some similarly valuable item and asked for a hand-screening?
What's the big deal?
Bruce
1. No one has authority to overrule explicitly stated policy. The path to that would be changing the policy itself.Originally Posted by bdschobel
Nobody wants to answer my questions:1. Doesn't the screening manager have the explicit authority to overrule the supervisor?
2. What if someone came through with the Hope Diamond or some similarly valuable item and asked for a hand-screening?
What's the big deal?
Bruce
2. Anyone in such circumstance would likely prefer to arrange private jet transportation, where security regulations are relaxed.
So I say to you, what's the big deal?
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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When the Shoe Carnival came into play, I pointed out to the fine folks here in DEN how other airports don't do it.Originally Posted by myrgirl
I agree and can understand this. It drives us crazy too when a passenger tells us how other places do things wrong; it shouldn't be that difficult.
DEN TSA boilerplate reply: "They're doing it wrong."
That became the standard reply at other airports too.
DEN is such a trendsetter.