While CAPPS II has been the subject of discussion before, with recent press reports, it looks like Big Brother is moving ahead to push this over on us.

I suggest all US citizens here who value their privacy to contact their Congressmen and Congresswomen immediately.

According to some news reports, it seems Big Brother may be pushing CAPPS II over on us as early as next month at select US airports.

www.dontspyon.us

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...04Jan11_2.html



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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boys
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Just curious as I'm not as read up on CAPPS11 as I should be. If an individual attempts to purchase a ticket, gets the background and wants check run on him/her and a warrant is outstanding (for whatever reason) will the airline or TSA then notify the local police department in order to initiate arrest?
Does anyone know?

As far as I understand it, it's the TSA that will be running the program and the airlines that will only be providing information necessary to run the background checks. Therefore, if a gov't agency (the TSA) runs the background and finds a flaw with your record, I would assume the gov't (whoever has jurisdiction over the person in question, e.g., if it's a state warrant, state police/federal warrant, federal police) would come and get ya.

http://www.eff.org/privacy/cappsii/ for more general information on CAPPS II...

Thanks for the info slippas. Man alive, I just scared the pants off of myself. I went to Dogpile.com and entered CAPPSII. I read many of the web sites on the matter this past couple of hours and am beside myself. I thought that the Patriot Act and Patriot Act Jr. were a problem. CAPPSII probably tops that. Very, very freightening.

Oh, wait a minute, I'm overhearing a telephone call from Tom Ridge to the President. " Hello, Mr. President, this is your boy, Tom. Say, I was just thinking, since we are going to push this CAPPSII thing onto the public if they are planning to fly anywhere, even within the US, why not put it in place also if they take the bus, or any other means of transportation. Come to think of it (man I'm smart!) why not go ahead and issue that national ID card that we discussed. We can enter the color code right onto the card. That way if any police officer stops someone on the street (Don't worry about probable cause anymore, we can just say that we think they are a possible terrorist), we can immediately know all about them. Boy just like the good old days in the Fatherland. Yeah, haha, doesn't that word sound a lot like "Homeland". Brings back that good old feeling."

Talk with ya later, Mr. President, got more rights to trample. Bye."

While I have nothing to hide, I find CAPPS II frightening. The US Govt will esentially be building a dossier on our backgrounds and travel. It's a blantant violation of privacy if I've ever seen one.

While the current CAPPS system is useless, as far as I'm concerned, CAPPS II will do nothing to enhance security.

One thing that is quite scary is many of the databases they are likely to use for data-mining are full of inconsistencies and inaccuracies. As most commercial databases including credit bureaus have many problems and inaccuracies, I can only immagine how much worse some of the databases can be.

As an example regarding Equifax, a commecial credit reporting database: There is someone with the same first & last name as me and with a similar address (the street # and first few four letters of the street name are the same). This person was sued for not paying his minor childs medical bills. A default judgment was entered against him and this occured while I was a minor.

A couple years ago I obtained a copy of my Equifax credit report and his civil unpaid judgments were on my credit file. The date of the judgement was before I had even turned 18. I went to the courthouse and was able to obtain copies of the civil summons, complaint, and judgement for this lawsuit.

This person is many years older than me, but with a similar DOB (other than the year), works as a corrections officer (his employment was listed in the court documents) , yet Equifax put his unpaid civil judgments on my credit report.

Needless to say, I got this corrected, but I've had other problems with the credit bureaus and erroneous information. FWIW, I work for a financial services company, and all too often I hear about things similar to this.

Commercial databases such as credit bureaus are often flawed with inaccurate, incomplete, or sometimes completely erroneous information. Apparentlty information from credit bureaus such as Equifax will be used by CAPPS II to make decisions.

Futhermore, it's not just "credit" information which is flawed in these databases, but phone numbers, employment information, and addresses / address histories.

I once had an insurance company spell my name incorrectly when making an inquiry with a credit bureau -- this incorrect spelling started to come up as an AKA.

What happens if they decide to match the name on your ticket with the name on your credit bureau and you have too many AKAs? Will that get you a yellow? On one credit card, I decided to use my first initial and last name when they asked me how I would like my name to read on the card -- that is now listed on my credit bureau as a variation of my name. Another variation is my name with and without my middle initial as well as with and without my full middle name.

I suppose this is the case with many Americans. The student loan company might use your full middle name, credit card company A might use your middle initial, with credit card B might use your first initial -- or heavenforbid you may even have a typo in the system a result of an inquiry from an auto insurance company (Many auto insurance companies pull credit for underwriting) or a 3rd party which viewed your credit from an application such as for an auto loan.

What about people who have names like "William" - variations on credit files often include Will, Bill, Billy, etc. How about John being spelled Jon? Would that set up a red flag?

There are too many unknowns. I have a common first name which could be spelled a couple different ways myself and is listed a few different ways in my credit file.

What about people who have both physical addresses and PO Boxes? If credit bureaus are being used for address identification, what happens when both a PO Box and a street address show on the credit report? What if the credit card you are using bills to the PO Box which is different than the street address on your ID?

What if I use a UK issued credit card to pay for an airline ticket and provide my UK billing address, but the CAPPS II check shows my US address? I travel overseas frequently and I happen to bank in both the US and UK (legally).

What about college students which have multiple physical addresses? Perhaps a dorm address or fraternity house address and their parents address? Will they be coded yellow?

There are too many unknowns about this system and many individuals happen to have more than one address be it a PO Box, a college student, a summer home, etc. There are so many problems with commercial databases I dare even venture to guess how accurate these govt databases are.

I know govt databases which are used in my workplace are fauly. Thanks to the Patriot Act tellers and loan officers must run new customers through a special database to be in compliance (don't want to have a customer as a terrorist, eh?).

Ok, rant mode off..

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by SDF_Traveler (edited Jan 13, 2004).]

"While I have nothing to hide..."

With all due respect, sir, this is the United States of America. You have EVERYTHING to hide until you choose to reveal it or a duly appointed judge compels you to reveal it.

Good point

But with a judge in a court (criminal proceedings, at least), if one does have something to "hide", all they have to do is go for the 5th amendment. I do suppose there are exceptions in such a court (name, address, etc).

However, thanks to scumbag Loy/Ridge/AsKroft & Company with the Orwellian Administraion -- they will do as they please and if you chose to fly, your personal/private business, will become the government's business.

www.dontspyon.us


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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

This is quite a business proposition that the Government and Cendent have going. The government makes the mandate for information collection, Cendent collects the info, and then Cendent is allow to use the info that it collects for its commercial profit. My, I do like free enterprise at the expense of my freedom and personal rights.

Wait! I hear another phone call comming in.
"Hello, this is John Sweeney, President of the AFLCIO."
"Hi, John, this is your old buddy Tom Ridge. How you doing? Hows the wife and family? Listen, the reason I'm calling is that the president wants to ask you again for support of the Union, What ya say, old pal?"
Sweeney "No way in hell, and you can tell the President that."
Ridge "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, he will be very disappointed. But I'll let him know.
Oh, before I go, one more minor thing that I called about. This is totally unrelated to the Union's support of the president. No relation at all. Do you remember that flight that you took last week to Vegas for the convention? Well, you know how you are coded "green" so that your travel is made easy? Well (and this is gonna make you die laughing) remember when you gave the ticket agent your information this time. Well, some how between the ticket agent's desk and Jim Loy's desk at TSA there was a clerical error. No big thing really, but you somehow got recoded accidently to "red". Haha, I knew you'd love it. Don't worry though. I'm sure we can get this straightened out. Just write a letter to TSA telling them why you need this corrected. Ask them for the reasons that it was changed. They probably can get it corrected "really soon". Of course, you might be able to call Jim Loy personally. He might be able to help you. Of course without your Union's support for the President we will be pretty busy up until election time and won't be able to get around to taking care of your problem until after elections. And if your Union doesn't see its way clear to support us we might not get reelected. Don't know what might happen after that."
Sweeney "No, wait, please, you guys probably misunderstood our stance on supporting the president, I will recommend that we do."
Ridge "Oh, I thought that this was just a misunderstanding. Say, tell you what I'll do. I'll personally get this code thing cleared up for you. I'll begin today. Probably take a couple days. I'll probably even read in the paper that your Union has pledged support before I get finished clearing it up, right?"
Well see you later old buddy, knew we could count on you."
disclaimer: all names in this ficticious writing are fictacious. Any similarity to persons real or just acting reality is strictly coincidental.(and ficticious)