SDF_Traveler

Fenito -

Thanks for sharing your contributions as it provides a view from the TSA side. IMHO, what the TSA screeners allegedly did to the OP was not only wrong, but extremely unprofessional. Perhaps even illegal, depending upon exactly what happened with the verbal threats & the extent of the physical assult. If a passenger said such a thing to a TSA agent and/or pushed / purposely ran into an agent, I suspect the passenger would be in jail. Double standards like these are wrong.

I understand there are physical plant constaints at airports to where there might not be a private area for such (larger) meetings to be conducted. I would suspect such facilities exist at EWR; however, if such a meeting is to be held where SSI is being discussed and no reasonable private accomodations are available at the airport, it is in my opinion the meeting should be moved off-site to a facility that has the space for a private meeting. Most airports have hotels and other businesses nearby which provide such facilities.

Personally I feel the OP had the right to stand there and listen to what was being said in a public location. At the same time, I believe it may of been done in poor taste (especially after he was asked to move on). At the same time, I believe the OP did have the legal right to be there as long as he was not interfering with or disrupting the meeting. His mere presense nearby does not constitute interference or disruption (unless he was shouting / making noise / etc).

Beyond that, it's difficult for me to comment further as I wasn't there and didn't see what happened... but if what the OP said is true, in regards to what happened to him, it was wrong and I would expect to see action taken against the employees involved.

Other government agencies, such as the FBI, DEA, etc., do not hold meetings where sensitive / confidential information is dealt with in public places (that I am aware of at least). I understand where you are coming from, but I also undertand the views of the OP.

Given the current state of affairs and the current mess with the TSA, I'd be willing to bet many passengers would be interested in listening into such meetings if they could. People are curious -- it's human nature.. people are nosey as well... and personally I'd probably be interested in hearing what was said too.

No offense to you, but the TSA is an agency which is completely out of control in many ways. It's expensive window dressing and a large waste of taxpayer money, IMHO. At some level, it is an improvement upon the old security, but in many ways it is much worse when it comes to the respect of passengers, their privacy, and civil liberties. There are many great TSA employees, but there are also many not so great ones -- but worst of all is TSA management and the way the agency is operated from the top.

In closing, based on your comments, I get the impression you're a hard-working, dedicated employee who takes your job seriously, yet you respect passengers. I get the impression security is well operated at your airport -- and I'll admit there are some airports where the TSA has a great operation -- but unfortunately such facilities are few and far inbetween.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

TakeScissorsAway

Heaven forbid !!

Just use "Goose-Stepping Nazis" next time. Seems like it's been deemed OK for LIBERAL use. Especially where TSA employees are concerned. Right Spiff ??

Fenito

I appreciate your comments SDF_traveler. It is true that the pax had every right to stand there as long as they weren't disturbing the meeting, but once asked to leave they should do so. It may be a public place but you have to respect those in charge. And yes, I understand the idiocy of saying the TSA is in charge but it's true. Lets say you were parked on the side of a road and an officer said you had to move along because they were going to need that space for something, and you said "F" you it's a public place. What do you think would happen? Just trying to sum it up there. But indeed they handled the situation completely wrong. They should have asked the gentleman to move along and if he refused get law enforcement to remove him. I'm sure many people would want to hear what we talk about. But believe it or not, we do have security sensitive information that cannot be discussed and shouldn't be discussed in public. Some things I could care less about telling the public because it wouldn't do any harm. But some things we just can't discuss and people don't understand that because of the current way TSA operates. If we were 100% consistent and 100% professional people wouldn't mind the security. But because of the way we operate now, I can understand why people do not take us seriously when we say we can't divulge security sensitive information. I'm glad I am able to shed a little light on the TSA side of things. I will always be as much help as I can.

Dovster

Listening into someone else's conversation is rude but there is law enabling the police, FBI, TSA, or even the Secret Service to enforce courtesy.

On the other hand, discussing classified information where it can be overheard *IS* illegal.

(About a year ago, I was on a domestic Israeli flight sitting next to a very high ranking police officer. He actually took out a multi-page document marked, in Hebrew, "Top Secret" and started to read it!
I saw the classification on top of one of the pages and asked him if that was permitted. He looked very embarrassed, admitted that it wasn't, and put the document away. If I had shown him my press card, he probably would have gone into a panic.)

The point of all of this: No matter what problems the TSA might have in getting private rooms, it is their responsibility to keep secrets -- not that of civilians in the area.

Fenito

I agree, but with a situation where the TSA has no control over the buildings construction, there isn't much they can do. So they have to improvise. And yes I do know that releasing classified info to public is illegal. I currently have 15 family members in various agencies within the government including CIA, FBI, DEA, FAA and military. So needless to say I know a little about the repocussions of spilling your guts. But at every airport where TSA handles security, they have no control over the way the building was constructed. They can however submit plans to add an office or something, which has to be approved by the airport authority and a design team has to be brought in and blah blah blah which takes time. So until they get that done, they can't do anything about it except use the facilities they have. That is the only point I am trying to get across. Yes I agree that giving out sensitive info in public is illegal but in this situation, once the pax was asked to leave and refused, it became a problem. The problem was handled very badly and unprofessionally. But it was still a problem.

Gaza

NationalCCW - I agree with the TSA Rep calling you a ......... If I had been having a converstaion and someone like you was eavsdropping I would have called you much worse. They asked you to move long. You refused. You were rude, so they were rude back. You can't have it both ways.

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Gaza's oneworld & Star Alliance Round the World Information Pages - www.rtw-info.co.uk

beergut

GAZA, I was wondering what would happen if he tried this in a British bar, one thing's for sure he wouldn't have heard the insults cos he would've been too busy at casualty

Nigel

Ken in Phx

My guess is that this story never happened. The original poster made it up.

SDF_Traveler

If security is to be taken seriously, it's of my opinion the meeting should have been held off-site at a location where the proper facilities exist -- especially if SSI was being discussed.

As I mentioned previously, there are many hotels & other facilities near most major airports which do have conference & meeting room facilities. Many airports (at least the airlines specifically which have lounges) also have conference & meeting rooms available (as part of their club/lounge facility) for use. While the TSA may not have direct access to them, I'm sure arrangements can be made. Having a meeting in the open where SSI is being discussed is reckless, IMHO.

For a general meeting where SSI is not an issue, I believe improvising with what you have is sufficient. When meetings such as these are held in a public area, one does have the right to listen if (despite it being rude & bad ettiqute) they remain in an open, public area, without creating a disruption.

I agree with much of what has been said from both sides - but if this incident did indeed happen, I hope corrective action is taken. It may of been wrong from an ettiqute standpoint to 'listen in', but hardly against the law. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when one involves intimidation, threats, and/or assult.

The one thing that makes me somewhat doubt what actually happened is that the OP took no reasonable action at the time such as notifying law enforcement of the threat/assult. Perhaps the OP had his/her reasons not to, perhaps there is more (or less) to the story -- but as none of us were there, we can only speculate and comment based on what was posted.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin