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Originally Posted by Lara21
(Post 16574664)
Remember everyone when the TSA spokesperson said they could demand a real strip search of the passengers if they so chose to do it.
I think TSA already does this to some passengers under certain circumstances, but I wonder if real strip searches are now being tested to see how the passengers react when they are taken to the private room and are informed by a TSA Screener. We now need you to remove your clothes so we can do the patdown. |
Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
(Post 16575241)
I should have said most of us feel its 'at least' a bit invasive.. so the inclusion would have included those who felt the process was very invasive..
Thanks for the clarification.. Like in previous posts.. with the nud-o-scan.. pretty much all Canadians are subject to the scanning machine that sees everything.. or a choice of a patdown.. I'm glad to see there is opposition to strip searches.. imo.. going a bit far, the security techniques.. TSA should re-evaluate their processes post terror era.. |
Definitions
Strip Search Removal or rearrangement of clothing to permit visual inspection of a person's undergarments buttocks anus genitals breasts The following does not constitute a strip search: removal or rearranging of clothing reasonably required to render medical treatment or assistance, or removal of articles of outer clothing, such as coats, ties, belts or shoelaces. |
NJ Requirement for strip search
Search Requirements
Detention or arrest without custodial confinement Strip Search NO exigent circumstances: Search warrant or consent, and Authorized by officer in charge of the station house. Exigent circumstances: Probable cause to believe that the person is concealing a weapon, contraband or evidence of crime, and Exigent circumstances prevent obtaining a search warrant or approval of officer in charge. I don't know if these if the Feds use the same guidelines but I figured I would post this. |
Originally Posted by nasa808
(Post 16575582)
Definitions
Strip Search Removal or rearrangement of clothing to permit visual inspection of a person's undergarments buttocks anus genitals breasts The following does not constitute a strip search: removal or rearranging of clothing reasonably required to render medical treatment or assistance, or removal of articles of outer clothing, such as coats, ties, belts or shoelaces. (Mod's..... I only speak the truth) |
Somebody asked in an earlier post what constitutes a strip search and I just posted its definition and the requirements to conduct one ( based on NJ law ) for all to read.
No where in my post does it state my position on what occurred. No need to get your panties in a bunch sweet cheeks! |
If anyone tells me I have to pull my pants down to my knees...... it's a strip search. I believe MOST people would concur if it happened to them.
And in any case, Whether it it fits the New Jersey legal definition for LEO's dealing with criminal suspects or not, TSA has no right to do what was described to an innocent traveller.
Originally Posted by nasa808
(Post 16575673)
No need to get your panties in a bunch sweet cheeks!
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila
(Post 16575789)
If anyone tells me I have to pull my pants down to my knees...... it's a strip search. I believe MOST people would concur if it happened to them.
And in any case, Whether it it fits the New Jersey legal definition for LEO's dealing with criminal suspects or not, TSA has no right to do what was described to an innocent traveller.
Originally Posted by nasa808
(Post 16575673)
No need to get your panties in a bunch sweet cheeks!
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Originally Posted by RichardKenner
(Post 16575021)
That's a misrepresentation of a statement made in the oral arguments of the EPIC lawsuit.
You don't think that is what she meant? If not. What do you think she meant in her oral statement about TSA and strip searches? Her oral statement sure didn't have a answer of no TSA would not do that to the passengers. |
Originally Posted by nco4242
(Post 16574140)
First I didn't think to refuse so I did allow them to do the search. I was just thinking that's how they do it.
"Did the woman put her hand in your crotch?" she just passed her hand over the area she did not do anything else, so the answer would be simple quick pass NO heavy touching, ditto breast she used the edge of the hand to go under the bra and over the top. Hands down my legs on both sides and that was it. At my age I do not have a hot body. As I have said before I didn't think to refuse and they were professional in their manner. I guess I was naive in thinking I should do what they asked and though I have flown quite a bit this is the first time I have not passed right on through, so to be honest I just didn't think of it as a major invasion of my rights. I just thought "oh well I am this flights lucky one" Guess I need to get educated and make some contacts as suggested. It has to do with the fact that you stood in your underwear, with your pants down, while someone touched you, simply because you wanted to fly. I am really struggling to understand how you don't see this as an inappropriate response to the 'threat' you presented. Unforutnately I think that this is representative of the 'everything for safety' and 'they were just doing their job' crowd. |
Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
(Post 16575241)
Like in previous posts.. with the nud-o-scan.. pretty much all Canadians are subject to the scanning machine that sees everything.. or a choice of a patdown..
I'm glad to see there is opposition to strip searches.. imo.. going a bit far, the security techniques.. TSA should re-evaluate their processes post terror era.. Canada uses MMW, mostly for US bound flights. There is random selection of a small percentage of travellers via the mat. One big difference from TSA is that one is clearly offered a choice of the scan or a pat down. The second big difference is that the pat down is nothing like the current TSA pat down. That is very far from 'all Canadians' being required to do a scan or the pat down.
Originally Posted by Mimi111
(Post 16575576)
That is absolutely NOT true. This is the second time you've made that claim and I couldn't let this one go. I'm not sure where you are flying from or to or what experience you've had that has caused you to think this is true but it is not.
That experience would be different from people flying in Canada to domestic destinations, or to international destinations (other than the US) |
I'm still not convinced that this was a TSA search. There is nothing in the TSA SOP that requires officers to instruct or force passengers to remove blouses or otherwise strip down to the bra.
With the term "at security" applying loosely, I am curious if this was an inspection by customs. If so, I can't comment because I don't know their procedures. If it was TSA (and that's a big IF), then I fully agree that the OP has a very legitimate complaint. But I have yet to be convinced that TSOs were involved. |
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 16576388)
I'm still not convinced that this was a TSA search. There is nothing in the TSA SOP that requires officers to instruct or force passengers to remove blouses or otherwise strip down to the bra.
With the term "at security" applying loosely, I am curious if this was an inspection by customs. If so, I can't comment because I don't know their procedures. If it was TSA (and that's a big IF), then I fully agree that the OP has a very legitimate complaint. But I have yet to be convinced that TSOs were involved. |
Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 16576431)
Is there customs at FAT?
Mexicana is still a listed airline at this time per the FAT website. CBP webpage still lists a Fresno Port of Entry. |
Not trying to be defensive here, but I am really curious if this was a Customs inspection because our uniforms are too damn alike.
By the way, for those who don't know, I've always opposed the current TSA uniform. I do not like the LEO-like appearance. I am more for the khaki and pullover appearance because it is more practical, whether working checkpoint or checked baggage. I disagree with the whole notion that metal badges make us more professional, and, having carried a badge for over 20 years, I see a lot of potential problems that come with just having a badge. At any rate, this would not be the first time that CBP was mistaken for TSA. |
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