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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Inflammatory Language towards a TSO (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1054816-inflammatory-language-towards-tso.html)

Jcd2147 Feb 23, 2010 7:08 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13449325)
Nope. Others have explained this issue better than I, so I'll just link you to them:


Don't Talk to the Police (Professor James Duane)



Don't Talk to the Police (Officer George Bruch)

I actually watched the 27 min video. Make sure next time someone asks you what time it is you don't answer them. They might be a LEO in disguise. A little paranoid are you??

Jcd2147 Feb 23, 2010 7:10 pm


Originally Posted by aviators99 (Post 13447780)
Yeah? What happened to you? From that to "do what you're told"???

Did you read the entire post?? I said I did NOT grow up in Berkley.

jkhuggins Feb 23, 2010 7:31 pm


Originally Posted by Jcd2147 (Post 13450783)
I actually watched the 27 min video. Make sure next time someone asks you what time it is you don't answer them. They might be a LEO in disguise. A little paranoid are you??

If a perfect stranger asks me what time it is, I have no particular reason to suspect that the person is interested in anything other than knowing the time. Sure, some extremely small percentage of people might have ulterior motives in mind. But the odds are decidedly in my favor.

But the story changes significantly if a uniformed TSA employee asks me the same question. I know that there are a significant number of TSA employees --- namely, BDOs --- who are asking me what time it is not because they want to know the time, but because they want to read something in my mannerisms and behavior to determine whether or not I merit further scrutiny. And since no-one will tell me what traits or characteristics BDOs are looking for in such conversations, I'm at a serious disadvantage. The odds are not in my favor. And if I don't know the rules of the game, which is stacked against me, I certainly don't want to play.

Paranoid? Maybe. But a BDO having a conversation with me isn't trying to find ways to clear me for flight; he's trying to find ways to flag me for further screening. By definition, he's out to get me.

senseker Feb 23, 2010 9:13 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13450955)
If a perfect stranger asks me what time it is, I have no particular reason to suspect that the person is interested in anything other than knowing the time. Sure, some extremely small percentage of people might have ulterior motives in mind. But the odds are decidedly in my favor.

But the story changes significantly if a uniformed TSA employee asks me the same question. I know that there are a significant number of TSA employees --- namely, BDOs --- who are asking me what time it is not because they want to know the time, but because they want to read something in my mannerisms and behavior to determine whether or not I merit further scrutiny. And since no-one will tell me what traits or characteristics BDOs are looking for in such conversations, I'm at a serious disadvantage. The odds are not in my favor. And if I don't know the rules of the game, which is stacked against me, I certainly don't want to play.

Paranoid? Maybe. But a BDO having a conversation with me isn't trying to find ways to clear me for flight; he's trying to find ways to flag me for further screening. By definition, he's out to get me.

At my TDC spot at SFO, there is no clock near me at all, and sneaking a peek at my cellphone could get me in trouble. Can't always know what time iit is, but sometimes it's nice not to know. Time passes by faster that way ^_~

returnoftheyeti Feb 23, 2010 10:12 pm

I asked the (rather attractive) TSO officer at SNA "if she caught any terrorist today" and she laughed with me.

I am one of "those" fliers, I usually am going through security 20 min before the plane is scheduled to push back. Since I got to go, I am usually polite and courteous to the TSA as I can be. But God help us all the day they decide to mess with me and I have 2 hours before my flight, or I dont HAVE to be somewhere.

tsadude1 Feb 24, 2010 1:15 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13450955)
Paranoid? More than likley But a BDO having a conversation with me isn't trying to find ways to clear me for flight; he's trying to find ways to flag me for further screening. By definition, he's out to get me.

What makes you think that a BDO needs to talk to you in order to be tagged? ;)

DevilDog438 Feb 24, 2010 2:58 am


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13452660)
What makes you think that a BDO needs to talk to you in order to be tagged? ;)

I don't think he was inferring that a BDO had to talk to a pax in order to target said passenger for fruitless secondary screening based on BDO criteria. However, even you should be able to admit that an actual conversation with a BDO increases the opportunity of the BDO triggering said fruitless secondary on a pax.

TSORon Feb 24, 2010 4:30 am


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 13438112)
Do the TSO's or any other TSA employee have a reason/right to ask you that question?

Yes, and Yes.

Reason? Engaging the passenger is a part of the new TSA philosophy of looking for bombers as well as bombs.

Right? Just as much as any other member of the human race has. We are not going to twist your arm to get an answer, but as one human asking a question of another. You have the right to refuse to answer. And that of course is preferable to being treated like (insert your word of choice here).

jkhuggins Feb 24, 2010 6:38 am


Originally Posted by senseker (Post 13451700)
At my TDC spot at SFO, there is no clock near me at all, and sneaking a peek at my cellphone could get me in trouble. Can't always know what time iit is, but sometimes it's nice not to know. Time passes by faster that way ^_~

You know, there's this modern invention known as a "wristwatch" that might be of interest to you ... :)


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13452660)
What makes you think that a BDO needs to talk to you in order to be tagged? ;)

Of course. Again, since nobody will tell me what the rules of the game are, it's entirely possible that a BDO could flag me without any conversation. But I have no control over that interaction. I do have limited control over the conversation I have with a BDO.

ND Sol Feb 24, 2010 8:51 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13453052)
Yes, and Yes.

Reason? Engaging the passenger is a part of the new TSA philosophy of looking for bombers as well as bombs.

Right? Just as much as any other member of the human race has. We are not going to twist your arm to get an answer, but as one human asking a question of another. You have the right to refuse to answer. And that of course is preferable to being treated like (insert your word of choice here).

You are being very specific in your response by parsing your words, but yet you continue to state that you "are required to report" when it is not a requirement? In order to constitute a requirement, there must be repercussions for not meeting the requirement. That is not the case with drugs, drug paraphernalia, etc. Do you have something to support your statement? If not please stop perpetuating the myth that it is a requirement; it is only voluntary.

pmocek Feb 24, 2010 8:58 am

another TSA practice that affects mostly just the good people
 

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13453052)
Reason? Engaging the passenger is a part of the new TSA philosophy of looking for bombers as well as bombs.

Right? Just as much as any other member of the human race has. We are not going to twist your arm to get an answer, but as one human asking a question of another. You have the right to refuse to answer.

So once again, you're expending an enormous amount of time and effort chasing a tiny fraction of the tiny fraction of passengers who are bad people: those who wish to do harm on airplanes and who do not have the sense to decline to speak with your BDO staff.

All the would-be terrorist with an ounce of sense needs to do in order to get around your BDO program is keep his mouth shut like Jim, I, and many other good people will do when approached by your staff.

TSORon Feb 24, 2010 11:35 am


Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 13454315)
So once again, you're expending an enormous amount of time and effort chasing a tiny fraction of the tiny fraction of passengers who are bad people: those who wish to do harm on airplanes and who do not have the sense to decline to speak with your BDO staff.

I’m not a BDO Phil. If I am talking to a passenger its mostly because I am a nice guy and honestly want to engage the passengers I meet. After all, someone has to give them a good impression of the TSA, after all the “bad press” we have been getting about the WBI systems. :)


Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 13454315)
All the would-be terrorist with an ounce of sense needs to do in order to get around your BDO program is keep his mouth shut like Jim, I, and many other good people will do when approached by your staff.

Against me that might work, but not a BDO. BDO’s are looking for the unconscious cue’s that you are giving away every second of your life. Cue’s that you cannot consciously control. So “clamming up” really serves no other purpose than to give the average person the impression that you are a jerk. If that’s what your aiming for them more power to you. Every action we make has a consequence. :rolleyes:

TSORon Feb 24, 2010 11:37 am


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 13454267)
You are being very specific in your response by parsing your words, but yet you continue to state that you "are required to report" when it is not a requirement? In order to constitute a requirement, there must be repercussions for not meeting the requirement. That is not the case with drugs, drug paraphernalia, etc. Do you have something to support your statement? If not please stop perpetuating the myth that it is a requirement; it is only voluntary.

wow, looked like it was REAL clear to me there NDS. Maybe you are reading into what I wrote things that are not there? This certainly would not be the first time now would it. :rolleyes:

GUWonder Feb 24, 2010 11:38 am

Voodoo "security" -- that which covers the practices of the TSA voodoo doctors known as BDOs -- cannot detect bombers. They cannot even detect explosives.

TSA-wanted-and-approved BDO practices were in play for the flight with the failed "underwear bomber". So much good that TSA-wanted-and-approved voodoo "security" did for that flight. :rolleyes:

GUWonder Feb 24, 2010 11:46 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13455500)
wow, looked like it was REAL clear to me there NDS. Maybe you are reading into what I wrote things that are not there? This certainly would not be the first time now would it. :rolleyes:

I cannot help but notice that you failed to answer ND Sol's question about whether or not you are required by law to report drugs and drug paraphernalia. So are you or are you not required by law to report drugs and drug paraphernalia discovered in the course of a TSA screening of passengers and/or their belongings that don't result in WEI discovery?


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