Porter Airlines
#946
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Has AC advertised its new product? And can you honestly say it is charging more for its J product to reflect a new product. I see a J product that is being heavily discounted, not marked up. The only people I know who are buying that product are people specifically booking a 777. If they get an equipment switch, I would expect them to be unhappy. Anyone else flying in J is hoping to get a better product than they paid for, i.e. an upgraded aircraft.
And there is a huge difference when you have new aircraft coming on-line vs. refurbishing an old one. Especially since your "sister" company is doing the work and is doing a rather lousy job at that. Porter wasn't going to introduce Halifax just yet, but since AC and their buddies over at CO's cried foul over YTZ access and the resulting uncertainty and delays there was a change of plans and thus Halifax was born. Porter never advertised the new routes nor did they take future reservations unlike AC.
#947
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
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*Starting December 17 through January 6, 2008. We are adding to our
weekend service with 3 daily round-trip flights to Halifax. Book by
September 27, 2007 . Using promo code PROMOPD. Travel between
December 17, 2007 and January 6, 2008. Promo code is subject to
limited availability in Firm class and may not be available on all flights.
Quoted Fares are one-way and do not include taxes, fees and surcharges.
Offer valid on new bookings only.
#948
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E75K 2MM * DL MM * HH Diamond * Marriott Lifetime Titanium * Queen's '92
Posts: 5,953
Porter never advertised the new routes nor did they take future reservations unlike AC.
Simon
#949
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Closer to YTZ
Programs: Fairmont Platinum | AC Gate Lice Status | VIPorter
Posts: 2,554
[FONT="Century Gothic"]Halifax SAVE 20% Book by Thursday, September 27
Adding 3 daily round-trip flights to Halifax starting December 17 through January 6, 2008.
$160* Toronto City Centre to Halifax (Dec 17 to Jan 6)
$184* Ottawa to Halifax (Dec 17 to Jan 6)
use promo code PROMOPD
FONT]
Adding 3 daily round-trip flights to Halifax starting December 17 through January 6, 2008.
$160* Toronto City Centre to Halifax (Dec 17 to Jan 6)
$184* Ottawa to Halifax (Dec 17 to Jan 6)
use promo code PROMOPD
FONT]
#950
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: Haven't been flying for a while... :(
Posts: 478
If AC does undercut Porter because the latter initiated a sale, I the customer am happy, regardless of whom I choose to give my money. And frankly, such a move would acknowledge that Porter is more than just an annoying gnat to Air Canada.
#951
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
When WS offered a $17 fare to Montreal I jumped on it. And a few month's ago AC had an $11 fare I booked several flight's as-well.
As a consumer I go for the best value keeping in mind: time, comfort, convenience and price when making my plans.
Watch for more falling fares to The US when PORTER launches flights in 2008 ^
#952
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
How many people, outside of FF, are likely to even know about the XM project? I would say "FEW", given the general looks of amazement when passengers board a newly refurbished plane, and the general ignorance of such things.
And anyone who is a FF does, or certainly should, know that equipment switches happen all the time, and that the program has taken much longer than hoped.
Simon
And anyone who is a FF does, or certainly should, know that equipment switches happen all the time, and that the program has taken much longer than hoped.
Simon
to you point, other than people here who will never fly PD, I don't know anyone who has complained about PD's delay in launching cross border service.
I have no disagreement with your post, just not sure what point you are trying to make. AC made several announcements about their new product, obviously they made those announcements public in an attempt to sell more tickets. (one would assume anyways but you can't always be sure) It still hasn't happened other than 7 aircraft so yes, I would say they are setting an expectation they haven't met. We all know this it has been debated to death.
#953
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
to you point, other than people here who will never fly PD, I don't know anyone who has complained about PD's delay in launching cross border service.
I have no disagreement with your post, just not sure what point you are trying to make. AC made several announcements about their new product, obviously they made those announcements public in an attempt to sell more tickets. (one would assume anyways but you can't always be sure) It still hasn't happened other than 7 aircraft so yes, I would say they are setting an expectation they haven't met. We all know this it has been debated to death.
I have no disagreement with your post, just not sure what point you are trying to make. AC made several announcements about their new product, obviously they made those announcements public in an attempt to sell more tickets. (one would assume anyways but you can't always be sure) It still hasn't happened other than 7 aircraft so yes, I would say they are setting an expectation they haven't met. We all know this it has been debated to death.
I can't remember Air Canada ever advertising its J suite, unlike WS which did advertise LiveTV before every 737 had it.
There is, to a certain extent, a promissary aspect to everything airlines do, and consumers have a responsibility to at least allocate 1% of their gray matter to caveat emptor. When Porter sells the Island Airport, it promises a significant network. The implication is that you should support them now, even if that means splitting your short haul travel among 2-3 airlines, because eventually we will take you to enough major cities to make it worth your while. When it sells a pass, it is, in effect, promising to be around for as long as that pass is valid. When AC introduces a J suite, it is saying, quite clearly, that this is the future, but it has never said that this product is everywhere. In fact, when the 330s are finally done to complete the XM program, there will still likely be a few 767s around in some kind of a domestic or all-Y configuration. They just won't be on scheduled year round services, but it doesn't mean that there won't be an asterix that you should check out if you expect a J suite for a seasonal flight to Hawaii or Dublin.
A lot of carriers have mixed products in their fleet, including CX, SQ and EK, but that doesn't stop them from advertising their very best product. You just have to keep your ears and eyes open to make sure you don't get on a five hour regional flight with the same expectations as you would a 14-hour flight on their newest aircraft.
#954
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
AC meaning of "some aircraft" = a lousy job that has seen the completion of 7 planes in a span of 18 months.
#955
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
Really, what pronouncements were that? That "we will update the 767-300s?" They didn't come out and say that there was a J suite on every aircraft. The fact that the federal government says all television signals will convert to HDTV at some point, and that HDTV sets are available, isn't making me run out and buy an HDTV.
I can't remember Air Canada ever advertising its J suite, unlike WS which did advertise LiveTV before every 737 had it.
There is, to a certain extent, a promissary aspect to everything airlines do, and consumers have a responsibility to at least allocate 1% of their gray matter to caveat emptor. When Porter sells the Island Airport, it promises a significant network. The implication is that you should support them now, even if that means splitting your short haul travel among 2-3 airlines, because eventually we will take you to enough major cities to make it worth your while. When it sells a pass, it is, in effect, promising to be around for as long as that pass is valid. When AC introduces a J suite, it is saying, quite clearly, that this is the future, but it has never said that this product is everywhere. In fact, when the 330s are finally done to complete the XM program, there will still likely be a few 767s around in some kind of a domestic or all-Y configuration. They just won't be on scheduled year round services, but it doesn't mean that there won't be an asterix that you should check out if you expect a J suite for a seasonal flight to Hawaii or Dublin.
A lot of carriers have mixed products in their fleet, including CX, SQ and EK, but that doesn't stop them from advertising their very best product. You just have to keep your ears and eyes open to make sure you don't get on a five hour regional flight with the same expectations as you would a 14-hour flight on their newest aircraft.
I can't remember Air Canada ever advertising its J suite, unlike WS which did advertise LiveTV before every 737 had it.
There is, to a certain extent, a promissary aspect to everything airlines do, and consumers have a responsibility to at least allocate 1% of their gray matter to caveat emptor. When Porter sells the Island Airport, it promises a significant network. The implication is that you should support them now, even if that means splitting your short haul travel among 2-3 airlines, because eventually we will take you to enough major cities to make it worth your while. When it sells a pass, it is, in effect, promising to be around for as long as that pass is valid. When AC introduces a J suite, it is saying, quite clearly, that this is the future, but it has never said that this product is everywhere. In fact, when the 330s are finally done to complete the XM program, there will still likely be a few 767s around in some kind of a domestic or all-Y configuration. They just won't be on scheduled year round services, but it doesn't mean that there won't be an asterix that you should check out if you expect a J suite for a seasonal flight to Hawaii or Dublin.
A lot of carriers have mixed products in their fleet, including CX, SQ and EK, but that doesn't stop them from advertising their very best product. You just have to keep your ears and eyes open to make sure you don't get on a five hour regional flight with the same expectations as you would a 14-hour flight on their newest aircraft.
Therefore, don't jump all over Deluce for something he couldn't control anymore. AC blames Transport Canada, Deluce blames DOT, AC and CO for their complaints.
#956
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 930
The first thing that can kill a new business faster than anything else, is not understanding your customer and what they expect and what makes them buy. Their customers expect high frequencies on that route.
Are you seriously suggesting that when WS started up with three planes and three destinations from the YYC hub back in 96 aiming at the business customer what they didn't offer somewhat frequent service that those travellers expected? Sure once you have a base in place it's safer to build in incremental steps but you have to have the base first.
Last edited by cblaisd; Sep 25, 2007 at 7:59 pm
#957
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Aeroplan Former E
Posts: 1,022
Another (hopefully successful) example is Virgin US - it has a limited number of airports, but a reasonable frequency. It concentrated on transcontinental flights plus Vegas (it is partially owned by Branson, so Vegas is almost required to offset his personality).
Last edited by cblaisd; Sep 25, 2007 at 7:59 pm
#958
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
I guess all the AC employee's and shareholders are shaking in their boots after-all. Well they all said Porter wouldn't survive this long. they were wrong about that and they were wrong to move this thread too.
Last edited by cblaisd; Sep 25, 2007 at 8:02 pm
#959
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
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use promo code PROMOPD
*Using promo-code PROMOPD. Book by October 4, 2007.
Travel between November 1 and December 14, 2007.
Discount is subject to availability and might not be
available on all flights. For new bookings only.
Book online or call 1-888-619-8622
Fall into winter and SAVE 20%
Porter. Flying Refined.
Fall into winter and SAVE 20%
Book by Thursday, October 4.
$79* Ottawa to Toronto City Centre 10 times daily
$79* Montral to Toronto City Centre 9 times daily
$109* Toronto City Centre to Halifax weekend service
$119* Ottawa to Halifax weekend service
use promo code PROMOPD
*Using promo-code PROMOPD. Book by October 4, 2007.
Travel between November 1 and December 14, 2007.
Discount is subject to availability and might not be
available on all flights. For new bookings only.
Book online or call 1-888-619-8622
#960
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,701
SOT - I need to go to Chicago in a couple of weeks. Lowest fare on AC.com was $527. BUF-ORD was $196 on United.ca. Guess who got my business.
I can't wait for Porter to add Chicago to its US network to bring some competition to this route.
I can't wait for Porter to add Chicago to its US network to bring some competition to this route.