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Norwegian to fly between UK, Ireland and U.S. NE Coast cities. from Summer 2017.

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Norwegian to fly between UK, Ireland and U.S. NE Coast cities. from Summer 2017.

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Old May 2, 2018, 9:58 pm
  #331  
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reference to Monarch is irrelevant. Plenty of legacy carriers will go out of business in next few years with worldwide recession, some big ones probably. You don't know their fuel costs.
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Old May 3, 2018, 1:48 am
  #332  
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Originally Posted by itsallgood
As far as 155 pounds one way, that is less than Norwegian's fuel costs.
Ah, but Norwegian has struck upon the novel and never-before-attempted marvel of dynamic pricing.

No more than a handful of customers are likely to get the headline price on any single flight.
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Old May 3, 2018, 2:51 am
  #333  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Ah, but Norwegian has struck upon the novel and never-before-attempted marvel of dynamic pricing.

No more than a handful of customers are likely to get the headline price on any single flight.
of course, but that's the case with all airlines.

A recent case of a domestic airline in Australia, where there was a maximum of 2 only sale price seats per flight. Many flights had zero seats, but spread over a few months there was a lot, but if you searched for 3, none would show at all.
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Old May 3, 2018, 4:18 am
  #334  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Ah, but Norwegian has struck upon the novel and never-before-attempted marvel of dynamic pricing.

No more than a handful of customers are likely to get the headline price on any single flight.
It's not working.
In Q1, Norwegian had a -35% margin.
In 2017, Norwegian had an operating loss of 1 960 642 000 NOK.
The company is very close to breaching its bond covenants; the only thing that saved them from doing so in Q1 were the stock private placements.
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Old May 3, 2018, 4:54 am
  #335  
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It’s not worth arguing about though, is it? It’s very interesting to observe what is going and I have found this thread, until now, one of the most interesting on FT. Certainly, I have some friends who are hell bent on buying Norwegian tickets for well into next year. I’m not sure it’s right to insist that they don’t buy tix with Norwegian, but I insisted that they use a good credit card.
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Old May 3, 2018, 5:56 am
  #336  
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Originally Posted by itsallgood
It's not working.
And yet they are still flying!

As are quite a few airlines that also "weren't working" at one point or another in their existence.
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Old May 3, 2018, 1:34 pm
  #337  
 
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Originally Posted by Concerto
It’s not worth arguing about though, is it? It’s very interesting to observe what is going and I have found this thread, until now, one of the most interesting on FT. Certainly, I have some friends who are hell bent on buying Norwegian tickets for well into next year. I’m not sure it’s right to insist that they don’t buy tix with Norwegian, but I insisted that they use a good credit card.
That's fine if your friends buy tickets on Norwegian - as long as they have alternate plans in case Norwegian goes out of business before they travel/return home. They'll also need hotel and any other land reservations that are cancellable if they have Norwegian tickets and Norwegian goes out of business.

There are a lot of things that can happen between now and then, but if they plan ahead, it will help if Norwegian goes out of business.

Norwegian has discontinued buying fuel hedges so if fuel prices continue to rise, it puts more pressure on Norwegian's finances. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...as-iag-circles
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Old May 4, 2018, 5:21 am
  #338  
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Good advice, thanks. Apparently, in the BBC news today, Norwegian has rejected two bids from British Airways. Not sure if this is what we have been talking about, but it made for interesting reading.

Norwegian snubs bid from British Airways owner - BBC News
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Old May 4, 2018, 7:16 am
  #339  
 
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Originally Posted by Concerto
Good advice, thanks. Apparently, in the BBC news today, Norwegian has rejected two bids from British Airways. Not sure if this is what we have been talking about, but it made for interesting reading.

Norwegian snubs bid from British Airways owner - BBC News
Yes, and if Norwegian did decide to sell to IAG at some point, your friends' tickets would almost certainly be honored by IAG.
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Old May 4, 2018, 7:44 am
  #340  
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Originally Posted by itsallgood
Yes, and if Norwegian did decide to sell to IAG at some point, your friends' tickets would almost certainly be honored by IAG.
Well, thats not really a given. For example, LH/EW took over most of AB assets and employees, but did not honor any tickets sold by AB. Monarchs assets were nicely divided up between various airlines (Th Cook, Easyjet, Iberia etc) and none of the tickets were honored.
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Old May 4, 2018, 8:12 am
  #341  
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
Well, thats not really a given. For example, LH/EW took over most of AB assets and employees, but did not honor any tickets sold by AB. Monarchs assets were nicely divided up between various airlines (Th Cook, Easyjet, Iberia etc) and none of the tickets were honored.
But AB and ZB both stopped flying. There is no question, for now, of DY stopping flying; IAG is pursuing them as a going concern, which is different to LH/EW swooping on AB, or the other airlines carving up Monarch's assets, after both had already failed.

This is more like IAG's takeover of bmi and Aer Lingus, rather than LH/EW's plundering of the assets of a defunct airline.

I know of no example of an airline being bought out by another and having its existing outstanding ticket stock rejected. There may be changes to the schedule and network, for sure, and some passengers may find themselves disadvantaged in some way - but it is not possible to simply not honour the outstanding tickets of the acquired airline.

Last edited by irishguy28; May 4, 2018 at 8:18 am
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Old May 4, 2018, 8:49 am
  #342  
 
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Originally Posted by itsallgood
As far as 155 pounds one way, that is less than Norwegian's fuel costs.
300 passengers times £155 GBP ($209 USD) gives over $60,000 US. How much does the fuel cost for a 7 hour flight on Norwegian?
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:21 pm
  #343  
 
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Originally Posted by ft101
300 passengers times £155 GBP ($209 USD) gives over $60,000 US. How much does the fuel cost for a 7 hour flight on Norwegian?
Roughly 35 tons (give or take), so roughly $25K.
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:29 pm
  #344  
 
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Originally Posted by ft101
300 passengers times £155 GBP ($209 USD) gives over $60,000 US. How much does the fuel cost for a 7 hour flight on Norwegian?
I didn't do the math - it was an off-the-cuff remark. Here's a link that gives fuel prices: IATA - Jet Fuel Price Monitor

You realize that the price Norwegian lists includes all taxes, right? For a Novemeber Norwegian ticket at $214.90, $158.50 is taxes according to Norwegian's booking engine. So it's really $56.40 x 300 for Norwegian so they would get $16,900 on a $214.90 one way ticket LGW-JFK.
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:31 pm
  #345  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
But AB and ZB both stopped flying. There is no question, for now, of DY stopping flying; IAG is pursuing them as a going concern, which is different to LH/EW swooping on AB, or the other airlines carving up Monarch's assets, after both had already failed.

This is more like IAG's takeover of bmi and Aer Lingus, rather than LH/EW's plundering of the assets of a defunct airline.

I know of no example of an airline being bought out by another and having its existing outstanding ticket stock rejected. There may be changes to the schedule and network, for sure, and some passengers may find themselves disadvantaged in some way - but it is not possible to simply not honour the outstanding tickets of the acquired airline.
Correct. If IAG buys Norwegian as a going concern, they will assume responsibility for tickets sold. And I agree that schedules would likely be altered.
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