Q/A with Internet Brands (purchase of FlyerTalk)
Mar 8, 2007, 5:34 am
#31
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BoJoVille - Host City of the best ever Olympics!
Programs: Meh!
Posts: 886
Congratulations on the sale Randy. Glad to know you will still be around for the foreseeable future. ^ ^ ^
Mar 8, 2007, 5:37 am
#32
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NYC (formerly BOS/DCA)
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Posts: 60,745
Mar 8, 2007, 6:28 am
#34
Founder of FlyerTalk
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 6,540
You posted something similar in OMNI and I answered it there as well. Since some members may not have access there, i'll repost my comment here:
Greetings and I trust you've had a good week so far. It seems you have a number of worries and i'll see if i can answer a few of them.
First of all, Web sites like FlyerTalk are quite expensive to run - in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. You are correct, i could have asked you for a few bucks a year to help. But if you've followed me or FlyerTalk for a number of years, that's not the way I think. Even when i didn't have much money that i could contribute from InsideFlyer to keep it going in the early years, i just could not turn to charging a fee to learn how to get more out of your miles and points. I started FlyerTalk with great intentions and I'd like to see those continue. Finding a partner that could help fund the increased need for more tech help, more servers, more oversight in customer service and frankly more expertise was important. The strangest thing about all these is that many of you see me far different than i see myself. My background? Simply being a frequent flyer working for a men's clothing company. No b-school training (Black History and Anthropology and American history), no training or working background in marketing, no knowledge or training or direct job skills in technology or IT, never been on an advertising sales call, took me a long time to even know what SEO meant (Search Engine Optimization). Yes, I'm proud to just say i have more than a million miles in each of 8 or 9 different airline frequent flyer programs - that's my badge of courage for you. So the sale of FlyerTalk is about making sure that the Web site stays as true to it's soul in the years ahead. You mentioned IB's other Web sites and call error to WikiTravel. Just a point of reference, WikiTravel is just that, a Wiki. IB does not add content, no more than i add content to FlyerTalk. Visitors to the Web site add content and while there may be errors, it's likely the next person will update and correct that information, in fact, if you noticed it, you might have considered correcting it yourself - that's what a Wiki is all about. There's information on FlyerTalk that may not be correct as well, but like WikiTravel, it is hoped that our other members will contribute comment to correct it for the person asking for advice.
As for not issuing any statements. well, you might want to blame me, not them. Literally hours after inking the deal, I took off on a pre-planned two-week trip through Europe and Africa visiting programs like Iberia in Madrid and to see how SWISS is doing after it's acquisition by Lufthansa last year. Not a good idea to announce the change if I was not around. When i returned 10 days or so ago, i immediately went into deadline and research for the April issue of InsideFlyer magazine, again, deadlines are just that and i did not feel i had the extra time to devote to the interest of the news. So we planned it for today, after I would have finished deadline yesterday. Well, despite our best plans, a leak of the information got out and disrupted things. I missed deadline for the magazine yesterday (an expensive problem to have) because i tried as best i could to give you some time and answers about this. Today I'll struggle to finish the magazine and then devote all my time to your Q/As that was normally scheduled. So you see, there was no real effort from IB to not make news of this, it was entirely driven by my commitment to a few other things. But in a way, it's good because IB really has not had a single conversation with me about any changes or concerns with FlyerTalk. In their own words - they like what they see and like the way it works now. Frankly, i see that as a positive, rather than a negative.
FlyerTalk is nearly nine years old and the value of FlyerTalk is the way most if not all of our members work together to help one another find answers to bettering their travel. Having spent time with IB which was valuable to me has certainly lead me to believe that they do not have a history of changes and are pleased to assist me in continuing to help FlyerTalk grow - by allotting additional resources for tech support, server performance, and all the things that i explained at the start of this - I am really not any good at.
I totally appreciate your concerns, but at the same time, would ask you to stop, take a deep breath and really look around. Doesn't look like anything is changing to me. Looks like the member-elected TalkBoard still makes decisions about what we're doing on FlyerTalk and I'm still here to try and help where and when i can. The spirit of FlyerTalk when i first started the Web site was - welcome, we're glad you're here. I think it might be a good idea to remember that and let's see how this all plays out rather than trying to guess the outcome.
Thanks for understanding and thanks for your continued support.
Greetings and I trust you've had a good week so far. It seems you have a number of worries and i'll see if i can answer a few of them.
First of all, Web sites like FlyerTalk are quite expensive to run - in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. You are correct, i could have asked you for a few bucks a year to help. But if you've followed me or FlyerTalk for a number of years, that's not the way I think. Even when i didn't have much money that i could contribute from InsideFlyer to keep it going in the early years, i just could not turn to charging a fee to learn how to get more out of your miles and points. I started FlyerTalk with great intentions and I'd like to see those continue. Finding a partner that could help fund the increased need for more tech help, more servers, more oversight in customer service and frankly more expertise was important. The strangest thing about all these is that many of you see me far different than i see myself. My background? Simply being a frequent flyer working for a men's clothing company. No b-school training (Black History and Anthropology and American history), no training or working background in marketing, no knowledge or training or direct job skills in technology or IT, never been on an advertising sales call, took me a long time to even know what SEO meant (Search Engine Optimization). Yes, I'm proud to just say i have more than a million miles in each of 8 or 9 different airline frequent flyer programs - that's my badge of courage for you. So the sale of FlyerTalk is about making sure that the Web site stays as true to it's soul in the years ahead. You mentioned IB's other Web sites and call error to WikiTravel. Just a point of reference, WikiTravel is just that, a Wiki. IB does not add content, no more than i add content to FlyerTalk. Visitors to the Web site add content and while there may be errors, it's likely the next person will update and correct that information, in fact, if you noticed it, you might have considered correcting it yourself - that's what a Wiki is all about. There's information on FlyerTalk that may not be correct as well, but like WikiTravel, it is hoped that our other members will contribute comment to correct it for the person asking for advice.
As for not issuing any statements. well, you might want to blame me, not them. Literally hours after inking the deal, I took off on a pre-planned two-week trip through Europe and Africa visiting programs like Iberia in Madrid and to see how SWISS is doing after it's acquisition by Lufthansa last year. Not a good idea to announce the change if I was not around. When i returned 10 days or so ago, i immediately went into deadline and research for the April issue of InsideFlyer magazine, again, deadlines are just that and i did not feel i had the extra time to devote to the interest of the news. So we planned it for today, after I would have finished deadline yesterday. Well, despite our best plans, a leak of the information got out and disrupted things. I missed deadline for the magazine yesterday (an expensive problem to have) because i tried as best i could to give you some time and answers about this. Today I'll struggle to finish the magazine and then devote all my time to your Q/As that was normally scheduled. So you see, there was no real effort from IB to not make news of this, it was entirely driven by my commitment to a few other things. But in a way, it's good because IB really has not had a single conversation with me about any changes or concerns with FlyerTalk. In their own words - they like what they see and like the way it works now. Frankly, i see that as a positive, rather than a negative.
FlyerTalk is nearly nine years old and the value of FlyerTalk is the way most if not all of our members work together to help one another find answers to bettering their travel. Having spent time with IB which was valuable to me has certainly lead me to believe that they do not have a history of changes and are pleased to assist me in continuing to help FlyerTalk grow - by allotting additional resources for tech support, server performance, and all the things that i explained at the start of this - I am really not any good at.
I totally appreciate your concerns, but at the same time, would ask you to stop, take a deep breath and really look around. Doesn't look like anything is changing to me. Looks like the member-elected TalkBoard still makes decisions about what we're doing on FlyerTalk and I'm still here to try and help where and when i can. The spirit of FlyerTalk when i first started the Web site was - welcome, we're glad you're here. I think it might be a good idea to remember that and let's see how this all plays out rather than trying to guess the outcome.
Thanks for understanding and thanks for your continued support.
I guess I'm in the minority here. 
Randy, you have the right to do what you want but I don't think this is a sweetheart deal like you make it sound. Those are rare, someone is going to lose in this and most likely it will be us, the people that post and read the content.
If IB wanted FT so bad why don't they introduce themselves and talk themselves. Why don't the issue statements or get in here and post. The fact that they haven't said anything (that I've seen) and refused to issue a statement has me worried right there.
For whatever reason I feel like this could be the begining of the end of FT.
And I hope I am wrong.
I gotta be honest and say I hope that someone here will take the lead and start up another site so there is a place for us to jump ship to when IB messes up what you created, if that's soon or four years down the road, I hope someone will give us an alternative to go to. As I said I hope they don't mess it up but if they do I hope you can sit back and watch what happens to FT with a clear head and sleep good at night to see your creation being destroyed. From personal experience the worst thing I did in my life was sell off a business that I had little time for. To see what the new owner did to it made me ill and I felt betrayed and sick (and still do to this day).
For you personally, congrats, I hope you got what you wanted, but you could have made more if you charged a few bucks from us instead of being a sell out. I know you said it wasn't a money issue but something doesn't smell right, maybe it's all my years in business to not believe the written reports, if it sounds nice it's usually meaning that someone will get something else in the end.
I looked at their other sites and they contain very little compared to what I find in FT. What are they going to do, spend the next four years taking the content of FT to post on their other sites?
Randy, you have the right to do what you want but I don't think this is a sweetheart deal like you make it sound. Those are rare, someone is going to lose in this and most likely it will be us, the people that post and read the content.
If IB wanted FT so bad why don't they introduce themselves and talk themselves. Why don't the issue statements or get in here and post. The fact that they haven't said anything (that I've seen) and refused to issue a statement has me worried right there.
For whatever reason I feel like this could be the begining of the end of FT.
And I hope I am wrong. I gotta be honest and say I hope that someone here will take the lead and start up another site so there is a place for us to jump ship to when IB messes up what you created, if that's soon or four years down the road, I hope someone will give us an alternative to go to. As I said I hope they don't mess it up but if they do I hope you can sit back and watch what happens to FT with a clear head and sleep good at night to see your creation being destroyed. From personal experience the worst thing I did in my life was sell off a business that I had little time for. To see what the new owner did to it made me ill and I felt betrayed and sick (and still do to this day).
For you personally, congrats, I hope you got what you wanted, but you could have made more if you charged a few bucks from us instead of being a sell out. I know you said it wasn't a money issue but something doesn't smell right, maybe it's all my years in business to not believe the written reports, if it sounds nice it's usually meaning that someone will get something else in the end.
I looked at their other sites and they contain very little compared to what I find in FT. What are they going to do, spend the next four years taking the content of FT to post on their other sites?
Mar 8, 2007, 6:45 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Some new folks will come.
FT has always like that anyway.
And many other BB's have been set up over the years - with a nucleus of folks from FT behind each one. Yours is not an original idea.
I've posted on several, and still post on two others, and the total posts of ALL of them combined probably totals what has been posted on FT in the Religious Traveler's Forum.
There is a clear message there - which is - there is only one FT, and that is why these guys chose to buy it is my guess, as no-one else fits that niche.
======================
Some changes will doubtless occur. "Enhancements" they are often called. Some good, some not so good.
Just like airline and hotel loyalty plans really. We should all be used to that game.
Randy has the bucks and/or the stock and good on him. I'd do exactly the same in his shoes.
His idea and his baby, and as history shows - invent a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.
I am sure he could have got the same deal - (or better) selling it to more intrusive, very hands-on new owners who'd want to re-invent the wheel around here.
Clearly he hasn't, and for that my thanks. ^
Mar 8, 2007, 6:54 am
#36
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leesburg, VA AA EXP, 2MM lifetime
Programs: SPG PLT, Hyatt Diamond, 10% progress towards lifetime Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 2,330
I guess I'm in the minority here.
For whatever reason I feel like this could be the begining of the end of FT. And I hope I am wrong.
I gotta be honest and say I hope that someone here will take the lead and start up another site so there is a place for us to jump ship to when IB messes up what you created, if that's soon or four years down the road, I hope someone will give us an alternative to go to.
For whatever reason I feel like this could be the begining of the end of FT.
And I hope I am wrong. I gotta be honest and say I hope that someone here will take the lead and start up another site so there is a place for us to jump ship to when IB messes up what you created, if that's soon or four years down the road, I hope someone will give us an alternative to go to.
If you've enjoyed the site as much as I have, I think it would be prudent to continue in the fashion we always have, enjoying FT. *IF* what you prognosticate does come true, well, I'm sure there will be plenty of people doing what they can to stop it. Or, maybe some day, we will move the discussion elsewhere, although I view this as unlikely.
I have tried to build my professional life around the idea that when someone gains my respect, they maintain my full support until they fail to meet my expectations in a meaningful fashion. FT has equipped me with newfound friends like gleff, headinclouds, Ice Trojan, GoingAway, cmccool(thanks for the book!), who have made me wiser in my travels.
After reading Randy's announcement, I've fastened my seat belt, and I'm going to sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight. Someone wake me up when they bring the sundae cart around.
Mar 8, 2007, 7:52 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: أمريكا
Posts: 26,763
And if he starts making changes to FT that we don't like, you can show him how you deal with people like that in Brooklyn.
Mar 8, 2007, 8:03 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,740
My background? Simply being a frequent flyer working for a men's clothing company. No b-school training (Black History and Anthropology and American history), no training or working background in marketing, no knowledge or training or direct job skills in technology or IT, never been on an advertising sales call, took me a long time to even know what SEO meant (Search Engine Optimization). Yes, I'm proud to just say i have more than a million miles in each of 8 or 9 different airline frequent flyer programs - that's my badge of courage for you. So the sale of FlyerTalk is about making sure that the Web site stays as true to it's soul in the years ahead.
Thank you for creating Flyertalk and congratulations on the sale.
Mar 8, 2007, 12:47 pm
#39
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,790
Congratulations to you, Randy.
We'll stay here (well, most of us wil stay here) unless and until FT leaves us, not the other way around, and from what you say that'll be a long, long time.
We'll stay here (well, most of us wil stay here) unless and until FT leaves us, not the other way around, and from what you say that'll be a long, long time.
Mar 8, 2007, 1:49 pm
#40
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Current Micronesian, Ex Buckeye....
Programs: All My $$$ Went to CO (Plat) with a Lifetime PClub membership that got degraded to United crap...
Posts: 2,089
I'm holding to my guns here.
As I said I hope nothing changes. You all can make it sound as sweet as you want, I don't think any buy out or change of ownership comes out as clean as this is being described to folks. If it is great, but this news and how it came out immediately raised a red flag in my book.
And as I've said Randy has every right to do whatever he wants with FT and I wish him the best but we'll just see how things turn out and I will voice my dispappointment.
It's what we've gained from FT, the information and the friends that I don't want to see go away. If FT was not important to me then I would not be so disappointed with this announcement. You say it's been a month, nothing really could change in a month, we'll see a year or two down the road what's happens.
And the one poster was right, it's just like a change in your FF program or airline. You folks go through the roof when they announce changes.
As I said I hope nothing changes. You all can make it sound as sweet as you want, I don't think any buy out or change of ownership comes out as clean as this is being described to folks. If it is great, but this news and how it came out immediately raised a red flag in my book.
And as I've said Randy has every right to do whatever he wants with FT and I wish him the best but we'll just see how things turn out and I will voice my dispappointment.
It's what we've gained from FT, the information and the friends that I don't want to see go away. If FT was not important to me then I would not be so disappointed with this announcement. You say it's been a month, nothing really could change in a month, we'll see a year or two down the road what's happens.
And the one poster was right, it's just like a change in your FF program or airline. You folks go through the roof when they announce changes.
Mar 8, 2007, 3:49 pm
#41
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,041
KosraeTV, Join Date: Nov 2004
FlyerTalk changed a lot since it's beginning, and that beginning was long before nov 2004.
Some changements some 'oldies' didn't like much, others were applauded heavily. And I am convinced, that any future changements will be liked by ones and disliked by others too.
What didn't change (so far) is FlyerTalk being the uncontested preferred FrequentFlier (for a mast majority of FrequentFlier looking out for such a tool on the web) platform on the Internet that I know for ff-information, ff-discussion and ff-contacts.
I learned to skip (neglect) what I don't like (and most likely can't change anyway), and to focus on what (as information, foras, threads) and whom (as ff-friends) I like, and I like contributing. I also appreciate that FlyerTalk offers a 'neglect/supress' option (which I rarely use, but sometimes it really helps).
FlyerTalk changed a lot since it's beginning, and that beginning was long before nov 2004.
Some changements some 'oldies' didn't like much, others were applauded heavily. And I am convinced, that any future changements will be liked by ones and disliked by others too.
What didn't change (so far) is FlyerTalk being the uncontested preferred FrequentFlier (for a mast majority of FrequentFlier looking out for such a tool on the web) platform on the Internet that I know for ff-information, ff-discussion and ff-contacts.
I learned to skip (neglect) what I don't like (and most likely can't change anyway), and to focus on what (as information, foras, threads) and whom (as ff-friends) I like, and I like contributing. I also appreciate that FlyerTalk offers a 'neglect/supress' option (which I rarely use, but sometimes it really helps).
Mar 8, 2007, 6:46 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Menlo Park, CA, USA
Programs: UA 1MM 0P, AA, DL, *wood, Lifetime FPC Plat., IHG, HHD
Posts: 6,912
Wow, the email and this thread came as a bit of a shock, reality shock and not so much a shock from there being an interested third party, in what is arguably the BEST flyer/travel site on the internet.
Having been a member now since inception, I have always been very happy with the fact that the community continued to grow as the same community that I grew up with. Not off on a tangent and not down some dark path as other online communities have done. As well, the member base I believe grew as well along the same lines and values as the base - which can hardly be said for many online communities once they break out into the known.
Sale $$. I would be that there is certianly a tangeable value for IB, but am personally surprised that we didn't see Randy make any other attempts to develop new revenue streams from the healthy installed based firmly locked onto the t..t of FT. What about a subsrciption model? Certainly, people pay for quality and FT is quality. WSJ has proven that model, granted, they are at the top of a very SMALL heap.
What about very selective advertising? I can only IMAGINE what the demographic of your average FT long timer is, but I would wager to say, 80-100K+, average age 39, 75% college educated, 20% with advanced degrees, spend on average 2+ hours a month on the site, visit 3 times a week.
Thems, some NUMBERS! Why didn't we see BA sticking a banner along the top of the screen, or Range Rover sponsor an african safari cooking chat?
There are so MANY revenue options, I think the sub model is the best one for this group,
50K users, 10$ a year, maybe 15$ easy, do the math.
10K an ADD,
congrats randy, I only hope that the site manages to continue as well as it has for the past nine years!. Otherswise, i'm bringing the competition!
Having been a member now since inception, I have always been very happy with the fact that the community continued to grow as the same community that I grew up with. Not off on a tangent and not down some dark path as other online communities have done. As well, the member base I believe grew as well along the same lines and values as the base - which can hardly be said for many online communities once they break out into the known.
Sale $$. I would be that there is certianly a tangeable value for IB, but am personally surprised that we didn't see Randy make any other attempts to develop new revenue streams from the healthy installed based firmly locked onto the t..t of FT. What about a subsrciption model? Certainly, people pay for quality and FT is quality. WSJ has proven that model, granted, they are at the top of a very SMALL heap.
What about very selective advertising? I can only IMAGINE what the demographic of your average FT long timer is, but I would wager to say, 80-100K+, average age 39, 75% college educated, 20% with advanced degrees, spend on average 2+ hours a month on the site, visit 3 times a week.
Thems, some NUMBERS! Why didn't we see BA sticking a banner along the top of the screen, or Range Rover sponsor an african safari cooking chat?
There are so MANY revenue options, I think the sub model is the best one for this group,
50K users, 10$ a year, maybe 15$ easy, do the math.
10K an ADD,
congrats randy, I only hope that the site manages to continue as well as it has for the past nine years!. Otherswise, i'm bringing the competition!
Mar 8, 2007, 6:53 pm
#43
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Gila, NM, USA
Posts: 1,044
Congratulations Randy!
I just got your email about the sale and came over to congratulate you. I'm a dad now and no longer a road warrior, so I'm not here nearly as much as I used to be. Probably been years since I checked your forum... I don't feel the same sense of community I did in the early days of FT. But FT is still THE place to come for travel info, nothing else comes close. And I thank you Randy for many of the millions of miles and points in my accounts. We're about to embark on the biggest free trip we've ever taken. We will definitely lift a glass to you Randy, and to the future of Flyertalk. I hope you did well and do well with this sale, and I trust that FT will continue be a great site.
Mar 8, 2007, 7:23 pm
#44
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Programs: LatinPass MM, HH Diamond, NW Platinum, Delta DM MM, SPG
Posts: 432
Randy - Just a word to let you know that my life is much better due to FlyerTalk - although somewhat more obsessed! I have travelled to places and seen sights that I never would have on my own (Latinpass MM and Machu Picchu). I have also met some fantastic people through Flyertalk by attending two of the mileage run seminars - some of whom I continue to encounter on various mileage runs! I am sure that FlyerTalk will evolve asit should under your future guidance.
Thanks again and if I can ever be of help or you are in the Austin, TX area please let me know!
All the best,
Dave B.
Thanks again and if I can ever be of help or you are in the Austin, TX area please let me know!
All the best,
Dave B.
Mar 8, 2007, 7:24 pm
#45
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Miami/Ft. Lauderdale
Programs: AA 2MM Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,349
Randy,
I can pretty much echo Steffo's sentiments, almost exactly. I don't travel nearly as much before, either, but primarily due to health concerns. I've been with you pretty much from the beginning, when I subscribed to the "Frequent" monthly newsletter. Thanks to your publications and especially to "Flyertalk," I've earned more free First Class tickets and bonus miles, than I ever could have dreamed. (I redeemed eight or nine TWA "TWE" awards in the good old days!) Thanks so much for everything!!
Neal
I can pretty much echo Steffo's sentiments, almost exactly. I don't travel nearly as much before, either, but primarily due to health concerns. I've been with you pretty much from the beginning, when I subscribed to the "Frequent" monthly newsletter. Thanks to your publications and especially to "Flyertalk," I've earned more free First Class tickets and bonus miles, than I ever could have dreamed. (I redeemed eight or nine TWA "TWE" awards in the good old days!
) Thanks so much for everything!!Neal