Okay, possibly I'm not thinking about this right, but I get annoyed seeing United pilots and flight attendants fill up first class. I'm sure their contracts allow for this, but it is problematic from several angles. First, they are surely taking seats paying fliers could have as upgrades. Second, they send the message that United staff would not be caught dead in coach seats. Third, well, third, it's just annoying to think I could have had an empty seat next to me--to spread out work and truly have a productive trip--but no, a pilot or flight attendant decided to jumpseat the flight.

Randy, do you know the rules, and am I thinking rightly or wrongly?!

Welcome to FT, IowaSun.

There are extensive threads on so-called employee class in the United forum. Do a search for Matt Wald/kokonutz's excellent exposition on this topic.

[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 11-18-2001).]

IowaSun,

WELCOME to FT. How is Des Moines these days?

I moved from West Des Moines back to Rochester in March of 2000.

Hope to see you online!

William

Essxjay is correct, there are tons of thread in the United forum. Flyertalkers even gave United's first class service a new name: "Employee Class".

When you work for United, you are given the right to fly FREE.

Here's how the DM works (Departure Management List).

If you are a Premier, Premier Exec, or 1K and request an upgrade, you are put on the list under the PUG list. This list sits on the VERY top and you have priority for upgrades. This list is cleared 20 minutes PRIOR to departure, sometimes more. Then United goes down the list to BP1 - 10 based on what they are doing. BP1 and BP2 tend to be reserved for POSITIVE SPACE travelers, such as pilots or flight attendants going back to their base on the company dime.

If you are flying standby for an earlier or later flight, you are normally a BP5 on the list, which only clears you for the CLASS OF SERVICE booked, not any open seat that is on the others.

If you are an employee traveling on LEISURE, you become a BP8A-C. A is for employees, their dependents, and flying partner. B is for employees traveling with more than 1 buddy pass (which is now on hold), and C is for United Express employees, and buddy pass holders.

BP9 and 10 are reserved for other airline employees, low life travel agents like myself, and others.

So United clears this list by status and will take any open seat, so you are probably seeing deadheading flight crews going home, as FastAir defaults to the First Class section, then business, then coach.

Hope this clears it up for you.

Nate

Oh, I'm perfectly clear (okay, REASONABLY clear) on how this work. My question is WHY it works this way. United's own customer surveys show that the number one priority for frequent flyers is to have an open seat next to them. They invented new rules for Economy Plus to increase the odds of that happening for Premier flyers in coach. But, they fail to believe that the same holds true in First. Why wouldn't they begin putting their crew who need to get somewhere into coach first? I'm telling you, it sends a message to me that crew wouldn't be caught dead in coach.

IowaSun

IowaSun,
From UA's web site:
...we'll reserve the front rows of the United Economy� cabin for our Premier members. When you choose a window or an aisle seat, we will try to place you next to an empty middle seat.

IowaSun,

I am not sure United ever committed to leaving a FirstClass or BusinessClass seat empty beside a Premier/Premex/1K member. That would reduce a lot of inventory. In fact, even economy plus middle seats start getting assigned at the airport and sometimes "taken" once the doors to the plane close.

I also believe the employees have the business/first class accomodations negotiated in their contract.

William

Most airline employees work for considerably less money than could be made in other industries. The reason? For me, FLYING FIRST CLASS. As an airline employee, this is a perk I've earned. If a paying customer does not check-in on time, then that first class seat is mine! It's not being "given" to me - - I worked for it!

---

I truly do not blame you NonRev99 - yet I only wish it were really THAT simple!

IowaSun

I think it is important to remember, that current thought on customer service is that your internal customer (i.e. employee) must be happy in order to provide good service to external employee (i.e. passenger).

This is part of the perk package, and hopefully it makes them people that are more satisfied with their jobs who will in turn provide better service.

Nonrev999 seems to disprove the " new" theory of customer service that says "a happy employee will make happy customers." He does not seem to be so much happy as entitled, and absolutely sure he has "earned" the first class seat. One can see from this post why Uniteds First is known as employee class, and why many who fly over100k a year are reluctant to fly United.

Actually, I am a VERY HAPPY employee, having received numerous accolades from my customers. I will say, however, that I (and other gate agents) get really annoyed with people who show up 10 minutes prior to departure and want their first class seat, and think if they "pitch a fit" that they will get their way. Most people have NO IDEA what it takes to clear a flight and be fair to everyone. If you arrive 10 minutes prior, because you were delayed on an incoming - - well, that's not your fault, and you WILL get your first class seat. BUT, when you arrive 10 minutes prior and you LIVE IN the city from which you are departing - - Don't count on it. That seat is going to be given to a well-deserving non-rev.
I certainly don't defend the arrogance and bad attitudes of gate agents. (and I've seen my share!) The customer is the person who makes my paycheck possible - - and I (and most of my fellow associates) am constantly aware of and driven by that fact.

I recently returned from Paris to Denver through Chicago. Due to delays in take off, I missed my connecting flight. I caught the next flight to Denver, but just by a couple of minutes.

I had used 160,000 FF miles for business class DEN/LHR and CDG/DEN. (myself and wife) I had first or business on all flight legs up to the return in Chicago.

But, as I boarded the ORD/DEN leg last minute, would United let me sit in the first class seat that I paid for with my FF miles? NO! Yet there were two open first class seats. I could see them. They were both aisle seats. There were FA's in the window seats.

So, two first class seats went open while my wife and I were separated and stuffed in middle seats. Yeah, they were Economy Plus middles, but a middle is still a middle.

When I landed, I complained, and United did credit back 10,000 miles to my account, the value of two first class upgrades. That was reasonably nice. But, wouldn't have been smarter if the gate agents or the working FA's would have looked at our documents and put us in the class that we paid for?

I think it sends a bad signal to the public when they see pilots and FA's, dressed in uniform, sitting in first class. When someone would have paid for first class, or the upgrade, it says that the pilots and the FA's comfort is more important to the airline than a customer who wants to PAY for it!

I appreciate that pilots and FA's fly alot and have to deadhead back now and then. But, maybe if they would look towards making coach more comfortable for everyone, the pilots and FA's wouldn't have to work so hard to get the first class seats.

Economy plus is an improvement, but its not about the leg room, its about SHOULDER room. It is not the length, its the width!

I'm with you here. Pitching a fit is usually (but not always) an ineffective method of causing positive change.

It's been so long since I've flown United that I had almost forgotten The Attitude. No thanks. I'll fly an airline that believes it is in business to serve its customers, not one that considers passengers as unpleasant items that must be endured on the way to garnering travel perks for the employees.

I usually show up at the gate a good half-hour before the flight. I don't want to waste my life hanging out in the airport and I don't want to stress out arriving too close to takeoff. But once in a while delays occur. You understand about delays, don't you? Like the month when United set the record for worst on-time record in the history of aviation? Well, when I get delayed I hope to be treated like a valued customer, not a transgressor. If you have given my F seat to a non-rev then either I've arrived too late to fly or sorry, that employee's gotta go back to economy. Geez, you guys really don't understand how upset your customers are, do you?

"A well-deserving non-rev." Huh. That really says it all. Enjoy filling up all those empty First Class seats. You deserve them.

"Making your paycheck less possible since November 2000"
--QuietLion


[This message has been edited by QuietLion (edited 11-19-2001).]