In these circumstances though, I can see why they would make this change when they have to - ie. when paper tickets are no longer available (and they are not feasibly able to alter the software). But making it at this point in time (while paper tickets are still allowed) seems to indicate that they may be other reasons also for implementing the change...

Why do surface segments need to be listed at all, paper or electronic? Why can't they just leave a gap if there is no arranged travel?

If you have a paper ticket , you will see that there is a need to put a segment in to allow the desired segment. The coupons go

airport 1 -airport 2 - airport 3 - airport 4 ....

In order to have a surface sector, there needs to be a gap

e.g. to do SYD-MEL-PER ,it is simply

SYD-MEL-PER

to do SYD-MEL , CBR-PER

it needs to be SYD-MEL-VOID COUPON-CBR-PER in order to handle the missing coupon

Dave

Such as seeing how it settles and ironing out teething problems *before* the system change that forces you to have it right or face intractible problems.

How did you get on Gardyloo? I spoke to AA RTW desk this weekend and the guy was adamant that surface segments count as part of 20 segments once I re-issue the ticket even though the ticket was purchased back in August 2006.

I made the point that if I wanted to fly with JAL or Jordanian or Malev I would not be able to because I purchased the ticket before they were members. He agreed and I also made the point that if I went from a DONE4 to a DONE5 the additional cost would be calculated in the difference of prices between 4 and 5 at the country of origin, on the day it was purchased - he agreed again... (ie all this relates to the rules and prices as they stood when purchased)

So, why is this surface segment rule being implemented for a ticket that was purchased under the old rules, before this new rule change...

Another reason why this rule implementation does not work - what if I had already taken 10 flights with 10 surface segments in-between and had only traveled 2.25 continents on a XONE4 ?

Eg (believe me, I have not tried to rationalize this theoretical flight pattern)

BKK - HKG // NRT-LAX // SFO - JFK // YUL - MIA // MSY-DFW // MIA - JFK //
YVR - DFW // LAX-SAN // MIA - LHR // BCN -CAI //

I then look to do a re-issue for the 10 remaining flights - would this mean without being able to return from the point of the first flight, the rest of the ticket is now in-valid (if I was to re-issue) and goes in the bin even though all these 10 flights were flown before the rule change was even published????

I realize this may be just be one guy at AA getting it wrong but he did seem pretty clued up on it.

I am now dealing with Cathay who have ok'd the route (20 flown segments + surface segments) and will come back to me with the new taxes in the next day or two - so far...so good..

That's just one AA guy getting it wrong - the rules when you buy the ticket are the rules for the whole life of the ticket.

... and presumably all the fuel surcharges that AA did not collect?. Please let us know.

There was some initial confusion but after speaking to the AA RTW supervisor she confirmed that the prevailing rules at the time of issue (i.e. no segment count for surface) would apply through the life of the ticket.

My problem was complicated by several "phantom" segments - originally planned, then eliminated - that were still showing on the PNR, giving me a 28-segment, two-transcon, two Atlantic-crossing RTW - - also resolved in the "final" reissue.

You've encountered a prime example of the chaos that exists in xONEx ticketing. The agent you spoke with was firm-mindedly wrong about several things, but he was the authority du jour you were stuck with. Each OW airline has its own interpretation (perhaps not from corporate, but just the all-wise manager of their RTW department) and then each agent (and each agent on their rate desk) adds their own spin. It's painful when you run into it trying to do something that is "obviously" okay.

Thanks Gardyloo for letting me know it got through ok and thank to everyone for replying.

Cathay have now ok'd and taxed the new route no problem, neither me or them mentioning this new rule - so I'm presuming when I get to the airport to get it printed it will go through ok.

In reply to Viajero; I had the original ticket and the one re-issue already done by Cathay - so (un/fortunately) all the expensive taxes/fsc had already been paid up to now but for adding on

5x AA domestic and Canadian flights and 4 x domestic Qantas

they quoted $845 (inc $125 change fee) per ticket - I contested to the phone agent who spoke to the backroom (on my behalf) and they came back with $640 including change fee - saving $200.00 per ticket in 20 minutes and showing what a joke tax collection has now become

I still think they are too high as AA don't charge fuel surcharge (according to Cathay - is that correct?) so that's a lot of money for taxes. I will wait until I get to the airport to scrutinize further.

It is so true about all it takes is one agent to be 100% sure of his interpretation of a rule (no matter how wrong he might be) and that is as far as you can go on that day. I'm still in LA whereas I thought I would be in Montreal by now.

I will push AA once again as I prefer they do the re-issue for several reasons including the fact that from past experience at this stage they usually charge next to nothing beyond the change fee and even though it is long and painful from the moment I step up to the counter I have never had to leave without them finishing it. Plus historically I have found AA e-ticket = no special screenings CX paper = SSSS everytime.

So is LGW/LHR JFK/LGA etc counted as part of the 20 surface segments or are these 'same cities'?

Have a close look at the posts in this thread - plenty on the topic.

Try posts #7, #8, #9, #14, #50, #51, #52, #53, #67, #74 & #75 so far.

#67 = No, #75 = Yes.

My bet?

If you wish to risk OPEN dated segments you may be able to ticket WAS, LON etc initially, then change at a later date after commencing the travel.

- YMMV

I am also reasonably sure that a couple of years ago I used a coupon that said JFK-LHR for a EWR-LHR flight without any problems, but obviously you run the risk of getting an awkward check-in agent.

Anybody been able to get a dated coupon ticketed with the city code? (a flight to/from Gatwick coded as LON, for example)

If you get CX to do it then they will charge fuel fines based on their policy. The fact that AA oiriginally issued it would make no odds. Given the lack of fuel fines that would have been paid to AA, it would not be surprising to get hit with a huge fee getting a fuel finer to reissue

Dave