I had the same speculation initially. Thus, I use the manual RTW page to build an exact same route as my current requested route. I am able to get complete itinerary with pricing, about double of my previous price but with additional 4 stops.

Just enter CX rather than RJ or BA in Expertflyer. I am sure somebody will effectively be willing to ticket it if anyopne wants it. Also, after the deval Star alliance effectively removed their new fares from Expertflyer (discussed upthread).
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...dec87c189.jpeg

EF shows them available for CX, QR, BA. But way too pricey for me, -- DONE3 ~USD $7K.

That's why I said "effectively".. because the new prices are much much higher compared to what they used to be (even before the currency deval). So, yes.. they are still technically available but for most people thinking ex-CAI would be a good origin, those low-ish fares are no longer available.

Exactly.

Sharing updates on my attempts to add stops with ex-CAI DONE3 issued by QF.
Background
Initial ticket price was around AUD3980 ticket + AUD1290 for YQ/YR
Initial segment was 13 air segments, and 2 surface segment, open jaw at DOH
4 segment flown (3 inter Europe, 1 from Europe to Asia)

I tried to change my balance itinerary by removing 2 surface (replace with inter US) and add final segment to DOH-DXB

Was told by QF team that for ex-CAI ticket, they cant calculate the change cost, unless,
1. Remove cities that stop multiple times (I have 2x KUL and 2x DFW)
2. End it with DOH-CAI

After many rounds of attempts with different agents, it seems always route back to same agent that willing to handle but with above restriction. Others just said they cant priced.
So, I made changes according to above, and was quoted 4.9k AUD price difference. Does this sound right? more like complete re-price the whole itinerary with new pricing?

If i were to cancel and opt for refund, I would get back AUD3.8k

Seems to me that in this case, one has to define "can't" fairly specifically. Do they really mean can't or won't? There was a recent post about QF's claiming that its systems were unable to make a certain change, perhaps that's what's holding things up here. I believe that your requested changes are permitted by the rules, but that's not going to help you if QF's systems are incapable.


Sounds way overpriced to me. If you're not adding a continent, and you're not moving D to A, your requested changes should be covered by Rule 16(a)2.b, for a total fee of USD $125. Maybe try citing the specific rule to the agent? At the end of the day, however, QF is going to charge what it's going to charge, and you (and we) are in a take-it-or-leave-it situation. There's no central OneWorld authority to which to appeal a decision that is inconsistent with the published rules.

For comparison I just ticketed my next DONE3 ex-NRT through the AA RTW desk. Base fare $4,180 (they told me that that's the JPY fare converted to USD -- the dollar has been particularly strong over the past few weeks). "Taxes and fees" -- $358.90 "Carrier-imposed fees" -- $363.80 TOTAL: $4,902.70

That's all nonsense by the QF team.

Assuming your itinerary conforms to all the other rules:

• There is no restriction on multiple stopovers at the same place
• There is no requirement to end in CAI (can be anywhere in the Middle East)
• You have already flown the first segment, therefore the base fare in effect when you purchased the ticket is now fixed, and you are not adding, or subtracting, continents, so there is no re-price for that. Therefore the AUD4.9k charge is unwarranted
• The cancellation refund of AUD3.9 is believable! Adding the 'D' class 1-way fares of the flights already flown would likely eat up what you paid for the whole ticket.

So what to do? My suggestions:

• Ask for a full, written, breakdown of the components of the $4.9K charge
• Armed with that, argue you case for it being unwarranted
• If getting nowhere, even after speaking to a supervisor, then ask for the supervisor's details - say it's for when you make your complaint to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) - this will demonstrate that you know at least a little about your rights and may cause them to look more closely at your situation.

Good luck, and please let us know how it works out (I am interested, because I start my ex-CAI DONE5 next Tuesday and might want to re-route some segments at the end on my itinerary)

I'm similarly keen to know what changes are possible after the first segment is flown without a reprice of the base fare.
​​​​
I booked with AA and more than one agent said that if a change involves a $125 fee then the base fare would be reviewed as well as taxes and surcharges. I'm hoping in the end that's not how it will work and am keen to hear of recent experiences (especially for anyone dealing with AA)

Interesting. See Rule 16(a)2.d:To me, this language might be problematic: "Rerouting fee applies when the resulting fare is less than or equal to the original fare." What do they mean by "resulting fare"? Resulting fare after the change to ticketed points? In that case, "resulting fare" would seem to imply, without stating clearly, that there will be a new [recalculated] "resulting" fare after the change in ticketed points.

​​​​​​​Other opinions?

Sorry, i missed out the "k" behind refund.

I definitely going to escalate this, thanks for sharing on ACCC, I will cc Airline Customer Advocate (ACA) in Australia too. Probably next week after my travel.
I somehow has a feeling that I am being "blacklisted" or "marked". I made a call this morning for a flight change, from morning to evening flight. The agent after checking system, first response was, oh, seems like you made changes before, now you can no longer make any more changes.
I push back. Then only she proceed to check availability, and informed no seats available.

That's quite strong, not much more than the ex-CAIs most people were booking post-devaluation. I think my DONE5 ex-CAI was $4700-ish. I don't think I'm going to buy another one this year myself since I'll already be over 250k AA LPs with my ex-CAI once it's finished. Might get tempted if there's another strong swing somewhere though and just book for next spring / summer, my primary reluctance in booking too far out is that I will have to use QF and they only allow changes to a year from ticketing vs. the correct 1 year from first departure. Will probably speak to one of the travel agents who have come out on the board for next time since I can't use AA (too much hit to LPs)

I wouldn't be worried about AA, they'll follow the correct rules and manually price them anyway. QF tries to autoprice which doesn't seem to work most of the time, if ever.

I, too, was told by Qantas I had to end in CAI on a planned itinerary that began in CAI. It's obviously wrong, but Qantas didn't seem to care.

The ACCC largely wouldn't care less. As an organisation, it only seems to act when there's a multitude of complaints along the same lines. And it won't mediate or act on an individual's behalf.

I wouldn't waste my time with the ACCC and the ACA seems to only be marginally better. Reports on Australian Frequent Flyer suggest taking legal action through an appropriate tribunal in Australia (such as the New South Wales Civil and Administration Tribunal) is more likely to get traction. It's not an easy process, though and not without costs. I assume you're not based in Australia and that makes it more tricky. If you reside in a country where Qantas has a registered office, you may explore legal avenues there.

Perhaps a better option still is to lodge a complaint with the US Department of Transportation. It's my understanding that airlines are required to respond to consumers in a certain timeframe following lodgement of a complaint.

Thanks for sharing on AFF (I had a peek, cant find much on RTW thread, will check out in details later).
Will definitely at US DOT in cc

LOL so making a quick 16 hr date change to one segment having already flown five of an Explorer ticket.

"I just need to let you know these tickets from Cairo were all underpriced by over $10,000 and there will be a substantial charge if you change anything. I see you've already snuck it by several agents so I'll be documenting the record so you can't do that again."

Funniest part? I got the Australia call center and she was even more aggressive and incorrect than Fiji. Will be interesting to see what happens after she gets back from "consulting a supervisor."

edited: for typo

I credit to QRPC, where you can keep accumulating QPoints after you hit QRPC PLT (OneWorld EMD), and earn PLT for two years instead of one. Plus, I fly between Thailand and the U.S. typically three roundtrips per year, and a DONE3 is usually less expensive than a straight roundtrip.


Agreed. Their superior knowledge, willingness to follow the rules, accept being corrected if they're wrong about a rule and being consistently friendly are the major reasons I've always used the AA RTW desk since South Africa stopped being the bargain that it used to be and we were all using Mindpearl in JNB.

Yes, the two ex-CAI I have are 1500$ and 1200$ cheaper than this. Worthwhile premium to avoid dealing with QF or BA for sure!

LOL, underpriced by what standard? Even post-EGP deval they weren't that much cheaper than ex-Japan and Norway. Certainly not by AUD10k, that's nonsense. I think they just got overwhelmed by ex-CAI bookings this spring because for whatever reason they became the ticketing carrier for most itineraries booked in the OW tool. Who knows if that was by design of by accident, but reports this year of even itineraires that should have been ticketed by BA getting sent to QF for ticketing via the OW tool, that's not a good thing for us, and seems they don't want to be dealing with them either. I really want a warning flag in the OW tool to say who the ticketing carrier is about to be on the payment page. Then you can make your own choice if you really want it or not.

Similarly I could make QRPC Platinum very easily with my travel patterns, but have a slight favor to AA status for the once or twice a year TPAC I take with my partner when we just buy the cheapest ticket and use SWUs for upgrades (they have always cleared even if just a few days before). That plus Avios long haul redemption cost is brutal in comparison to AAdvantage, and an EXP would likely earn 2-3x total miles per year vs QRPC Plat due to partner multipliers AA elites have that other OW programs don't offer, assuming the AA EXP is avoiding most AA, BA, and IB coded flights. It's not one size fits all, I know, but works extremely well for me in today's environment. I definitely though would appreciate the QRPC Plat Al Safwa access on paid J tickets on QR as I have a lot of those, but the new Al Mourjan Garden works well enough, much better than the original 'south' one.

In fairness, after the warning/scolding she went away to work on it, made the change and advised "only the $125 change fee" and I'll take a credit card when ready.

I asked her nicely to pull up the rules, directed to her about the date changes part...and she not only admitted she was wrong, but thanked me for explaining it to her. Quite refreshing in customer service these days to see someone willing to learn and admit their mistakes instead of digging in. My sense was she's seen so many of these with people arguing about massive price increases when making changes before departure that she wasn't willing to invest the time making changes if I wasn't warned ahead....

The food and champagne have gone downhill a bit at Al Safwa, but I still like it for the sleeping rooms. I've had incredible success getting one when I wanted/needed it. Only been denied once. I must say, I also enjoy the small exhibits of pieces from the collection of the Museum of Islamic Art.

Hi, what are the changes you made? Isn't date change suppose to be free?

Maybe my post was unclear. It was a date change. She was wrong in thinking she should charge a fee. When I guided her through the rules she figured that out.

edited to clarify: free AFTER the first segment is flown. Before that any change is a refare.

A DONE3 planning question. Note the earlier reference by DR.HFH was for a DONE3.....ex Japan
Also my plan...
Madrid to Singapore in October....
Choices:
MAD-LHR to QF 2
MAD-DOH-SIN on QR.
What is the likely difference in "additional charges" resulting from selecting QF from LHR(connection so no UK departure tax)
I would credit to QF so a substantial difference in points awarded.

Note: for a DONE4 LHR to PER QF has zero mid week D class available either direct or via SIN
Once again think about wandering
Fred

Hi, Fred,

You can get a breakdown of the fees and other charges using ITA Matrix. Even though it's now owned by Google, it still gives a complete breakdown of these other charges.

I didn’t think ITA gave good info for fees and charges when a fare is part of a xONE, though?

I have been advised by an experienced TA that the fees and surcharges displayed in ITA Matrix can be significantly off vs those actually charged by various airlines for xONEx tickets. There are also several reports that these can be different for the same exact flights depending on the ticketing airline.

If you're considering doing it ex-Japan you don't need to worry much about the airline imposed fees, they're minimal. Likely in the $250-400 range. If you go ex-OSL then you have to be very conscious of them (ex-MAD isn't price competitive), and I believe QF tends to run higher than BA, but both are known to be high. The cheapest on YQ for an ex-OSL to SIN should be QR though it does require a stop in DOH and eats up 1 of the intra-Europe segments. AA or a travel agent can issue ex-OSL as OSL-DOH-SIN on QR, however the OneWorld tool can not.

You've been given good advice. That's been discussed quite a bit in here.

Shouldn't it also be free if you leave the first segment untouched before actually flying it?

I could have been somewhat less obscure.
Planned trip is:
HND-LAX-DEN - / (7 USA segments - one external to DONEx)
DEN-LAX-MAD-LPA-/-MAD (the choice that was present) - SIN
SIN--> Japan in future willing to pay the $125 re-route fee
Mrs QF the same except 6 DIFFERENT USA segments or different times
So the justification is as much the cost of USA flying in combination with getting there
And QF makes the DONE4 difficult with the release of no (minimal D class) seats even in non peak periods

So much planning for the minimal wandering
Fred

Not sure I'm following. Are you suggesting that before flying a single segment you change segments 2-16 (or some of those segments) but as long as you don't change the first segment it's free?

This is incorrect. ANY changes to the ticket before the first segment is flown requires a re-fare.

If you change this to HND-JFK-DEN you'll earn some extra miles.


I've never had that problem with QR. What route is giving you a problem?

I was puzzled too. Assuming the OP did mean QF as they typed, I had no trouble at all finding SCL-SYD and SYD-JNB within a couple of days of when I wanted them....and that was after several date changes. QF seemed pretty open to me.

Agree, QR is typically not an issue, I get the impression that Wandering_Fred really wants that QF A380 for some reason. QF is very stingy with D space on some flights, last year I really wanted the QF AKL-JFK flight but was never able to find D on it either. Similarly the year before, it was very hard to get the QF flight SYD-DFW in D.

I'd really just go via DOH, service is miles ahead of QF, seats are at least equal if not better. The one and only time I'd avoid QR is during Ramadan since they don't have alcohol in DOH lounges during that month and my layovers are more often than not fairly long. (I actually don't know about Al Mourjan and Al Safwa during that month, but my friend tried a Priority Pass lounge and all alcohol had been removed, so assume it's airport wide)

Ahhhh. I do recall a comment a bit upthread now, QF codes credit much better to that program. It's one I know absolutely nothing about.

To be precise: i don't touch the first segment and i only change the date of the following segments it should be free according to my understanding? That's what i understand out of paragraph 16a.

Nope. Many fares have similar wording. The fare doesn’t lock until the first segment using that fare basis is flown. If you make any change of any sort before flying the first segment it will trigger a refare.

All due respect and all that, but I disagree ironmanjt

If what you're saying is true, then the words I have highlighted below are superfluousI say they are not superfluous, and they mean what they say.
(I have no evidence to back this up, it's just me being a barrack-room lawyer :D)

I definitely agree with you on the wording - and I suspect if taken to a court of law you would win. However, my experience has been that it's not what is "intended" and getting an airline (especially QF) to honor the wording voluntarily is likely to be a massive uphill battle. I think we need a guinea pig!

Well it won't be me :D
I start my ex-CAI DONE5 on Monday Tuesday (oops), so no time for me make changes now!

Enjoy - what's your routing?

I started my second ex-CAI a few weeks ago, and parked it "home" at DCA and head off Monday myself for the rest of it.

Looking forward to:

ANC - with a sidetrip to OME and Cessna milkrun-hopping to UNK
The "unusual" line on my lifetime flight map of ANC-HNL
Going to CXI, even though I can't stay for the week this time around
Getting to a new city in Australia and exploring ADL
...and of course Q-Suites.

Not looking forward to:

7+ hours with MH...but maybe they'll surprise me!

If you have time in Nome, try to get a vehicle and drive out a couple of the roads that lead into the Seward Peninsula bush - maybe the Nome - Council Road to the "last train to nowhere" or the Kougarok Road to Pilgrim Hot Springs - lots of wildlife in the area, especially musk oxen.



You might also watch a few episodes of Bering Sea Gold (Discovery Channel) which documents the nut cases that dive to the ocean floor to hoover up gold, summer and winter.

One of the miners: