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Dr. HFH Jul 30, 2016 7:09 pm

FYI, all, -- AFAICT, the Global Explorer fare does not have any mention about the Middle East-Europe problem which is causing so much grief with the AA RTW desk. (OTOH, of course, Global Explorer in premium cabins is limited to 34,000 BIS miles, far from the most efficient use of this ticket.)

pbd456 Jul 30, 2016 7:48 pm

the circle fare is interesting too. but it is not ideal in term of mileage running.

basically, my done are mostly for mileage running as i have been to pretty much anywhere one world major cities..

SDandi Jul 30, 2016 11:53 pm


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 26991928)
Yes. Me:)

My itinerary is MPM-xDOH-BKK ... ATL-LHR-MAD-DKR

This has been priced and paid for with AA (it has not been ticketed yet, but since the first flight is not until June 2017, I guess it is low on AA's list of priorities)

This itinerary does not run foul of AA's interpretation of the backtracking rule (it has no flight segments between Europe and Middle East), so I had no problems getting AA to price it up.

skunker's proposed itinerary is essentially the same as mine. The only difference is that it heads West from DOH (to the US) at the beginning and comes into Europe at the end from the East (HKG-LHR).
So I really don't understand how the AAgent that dealt with this had the belief that the itinerary was invalid.
(Either DOH or LHR must be a transfer without stopover, but I'm sure skunker would know that and anyway that is not the problem the AAgent had with the itinerary.)

Fantastic pandaperth! So if I am understanding correctly, it is working for you because you are not transiting through DOH on your return? Unlike my proposed itinerary of MPM-xDOH-SIN-(Surface Sector SIN-DPS)-DPS-HKG-MNL-HKG-LAX-MAD-VIE-HEL-CDG-xDOH-SEZ. If that's the case, I can do a LHR to NBO to avoid DOH. Did your LHR stop bump up your cost drastically?

And, if you are starting in June, I am assuming you are planning on changing some dates when they open up?

Thanks again for your input!

skunker Jul 31, 2016 12:01 am


Originally Posted by SDandi (Post 26991852)
So is anyone booking an ex- MPM ticket able to transit Europe?
Skunker- are you saying you are going to add it in when you change your routing?

Yes, that was my plan: add it when I change the routing.

Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 26991928)
Yes. Me:)

My itinerary is MPM-xDOH-BKK ... ATL-LHR-MAD-DKR

This has been priced and paid for with AA (it has not been ticketed yet, but since the first flight is not until June 2017, I guess it is low on AA's list of priorities)

This itinerary does not run foul of AA's interpretation of the backtracking rule (it has no flight segments between Europe and Middle East), so I had no problems getting AA to price it up.

skunker's proposed itinerary is essentially the same as mine. The only difference is that it heads West from DOH (to the US) at the beginning and comes into Europe at the end from the East (HKG-LHR).
So I really don't understand how the AAgent that dealt with this had the belief that the itinerary was invalid.
(Either DOH or LHR must be a transfer without stopover, but I'm sure skunker would know that and anyway that is not the problem the AAgent had with the itinerary.)

Yes, I wanted a transit in LHR and was told no can do as it was "backtracking continents." When I pointed out that DOH was the same continent she just said "it's different in this case."

Since you've been able to purchase your itinerary I might try to change mine to include the Europe transit at the end.

skunker Jul 31, 2016 12:03 am


Originally Posted by SDandi (Post 26992687)
Fantastic pandaperth! So if I am understanding correctly, it is working for you because you are not transiting through DOH on your return? Unlike my proposed itinerary of MPM-xDOH-SIN-(Surface Sector SIN-DPS)-DPS-HKG-MNL-HKG-LAX-MAD-VIE-HEL-CDG-xDOH-SEZ. If that's the case, I can do a LHR to NBO to avoid DOH. Did your LHR stop bump up your cost drastically?

And, if you are starting in June, I am assuming you are planning on changing some dates when they open up?

Thanks again for your input!

A transit at LHR shouldn't change the price much as the APD is only for originating in the UK. The fuel surcharge on BA is another story.

pandaperth Jul 31, 2016 12:51 am


Originally Posted by skunker (Post 26992697)
Yes, that was my plan: add it when I change the routing.

Yes, I wanted a transit in LHR and was told no can do as it was "backtracking continents." When I pointed out that DOH was the same continent she just said "it's different in this case."

Since you've been able to purchase your itinerary I might try to change mine to include the Europe transit at the end.

I think what you have calls for HUACA - a different AAgent should not have the same issue with your proposed itinerary.

pandaperth Jul 31, 2016 12:56 am


Originally Posted by SDandi (Post 26992687)
Fantastic pandaperth! So if I am understanding correctly, it is working for you because you are not transiting through DOH on your return? Unlike my proposed itinerary of MPM-xDOH-SIN-(Surface Sector SIN-DPS)-DPS-HKG-MNL-HKG-LAX-MAD-VIE-HEL-CDG-xDOH-SEZ. If that's the case, I can do a LHR to NBO to avoid DOH. Did your LHR stop bump up your cost drastically?

No, you are not understanding me correctly.
The reason my itinerary is acceptable to AA and yours is not is that I have no segments between the two zones, and you do (your CDG-DOH flight)

And, if you are starting in June, I am assuming you are planning on changing some dates when they open up?
Correct. My itinerary starts mid-June 2017 and when I can adjust the dates on my itinerary, it will end ~May 2018

Thanks again for your input!
You are very welcome.

aaupgrade Jul 31, 2016 7:05 am


Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 26992171)
the circle fare is interesting too. but it is not ideal in term of mileage running.

basically, my done are mostly for mileage running as i have been to pretty much anywhere one world major cities..

How do you plan on handling the 75K RDM limit per ticket, or are you doing the mileage run for another OW/partner FF program?

FWIW, while I used to really work to maximize my mileage earning, not so much anymore. I do my trips for travel purposes, including a couple short DFW-EGE-LAX flights, not to mention SYD-MEL. Even doing that I still way over the 75K RDM/ticket threshold so am splitting earning between BAEC and AAdvantage. I'll earn a lot more with BAEC on AA coded RTW flights than with AA and need the BA flights to qualify for BAEC Gold.

pbd456 Jul 31, 2016 8:20 am


Originally Posted by aaupgrade (Post 26993430)
How do you plan on handling the 75K RDM limit per ticket, or are you doing the mileage run for another OW/partner FF program?

FWIW, while I used to really work to maximize my mileage earning, not so much anymore. I do my trips for travel purposes, including a couple short DFW-EGE-LAX flights, not to mention SYD-MEL. Even doing that I still way over the 75K RDM/ticket threshold so am splitting earning between BAEC and AAdvantage. I'll earn a lot more with BAEC on AA coded RTW flights than with AA and need the BA flights to qualify for BAEC Gold.

my ticket is issued by CX, and only one aa segment

Dr. HFH Jul 31, 2016 8:30 am


Originally Posted by aaupgrade (Post 26993430)
How do you plan on handling the 75K RDM limit per ticket, or are you doing the mileage run for another OW/partner FF program?

FWIW, while I used to really work to maximize my mileage earning, not so much anymore. I do my trips for travel purposes, including a couple short DFW-EGE-LAX flights, not to mention SYD-MEL. Even doing that I still way over the 75K RDM/ticket threshold so am splitting earning between BAEC and AAdvantage. I'll earn a lot more with BAEC on AA coded RTW flights than with AA and need the BA flights to qualify for BAEC Gold.

I believe that you have to book it initially using your AAdvantage number if you want to benefit from eVIPs or sticker upgrades. I'm going to be doing the same thing as you. Will book it initially with AAdvantage then change at least the QR flights to QRPC at the gates before I board.

pbd456 Jul 31, 2016 8:48 am


Originally Posted by Dr. HFH (Post 26993676)
I believe that you have to book it initially using your AAdvantage number if you want to benefit from eVIPs or sticker upgrades. I'm going to be doing the same thing as you. Will book it initially with AAdvantage then change at least the QR flights to QRPC at the gates before I board.

at this point, it is all speculation, i incline to think that the cap is only applied on aa marketed flight. only aa coded flight is attached with a 4 digit eticket number. i deliberately ticket my rtw via cx with only one aa segment. (jfk lax) i have not decided if that would be posted to aa or jl (or perhaps aim at ba gold as my parents and my 2 year old nephew are all ba gold.)

thois Jul 31, 2016 9:02 am


Originally Posted by aaupgrade (Post 26993430)
How do you plan on handling the 75K RDM limit per ticket

Sorry if this has been mentioned here before.

AA PLT desk confirmed that the system is not tracking bookings, only ticket numbers. Neither there is no special handling for RTW tickets.

They also confirmed, that if one make change that gets the ticket reissued, the counter would start counting again from zero because having different e-ticket number. So, it's at least really possible to dodge the 75K RDM limit by getting ticket re-issued by making changes on the way, before the cap would apply.

Gardyloo Jul 31, 2016 9:38 am


Originally Posted by thois (Post 26993765)
Sorry if this has been mentioned here before.

AA PLT desk confirmed that the system is not tracking bookings, only ticket numbers. Neither there is no special handling for RTW tickets.

They also confirmed, that if one make change that gets the ticket reissued, the counter would start counting again from zero because having different e-ticket number. So, it's at least really possible to dodge the 75K RDM limit by getting ticket re-issued by making changes on the way, before the cap would apply.

Great news, thanks!

JonNYC Jul 31, 2016 10:00 am


Originally Posted by thois (Post 26993765)
Sorry if this has been mentioned here before.

AA PLT desk confirmed that the system is not tracking bookings, only ticket numbers. Neither there is no special handling for RTW tickets.

They also confirmed, that if one make change that gets the ticket reissued, the counter would start counting again from zero because having different e-ticket number. So, it's at least really possible to dodge the 75K RDM limit by getting ticket re-issued by making changes on the way, before the cap would apply.

While that certainly makes -sense-, and sounds logical logistically, would be nice to have/find some really authoritative guidance beyond a AA res agent-- at least a senior agent, etc. As we all know, there's no AA PLT desk, per se, so no way to determine the experience/knowledge/authoritativeness of that agent's opinion.

Again, sounds very possible, but wouldn't want anyone to make plans based on same.

Dr. HFH Jul 31, 2016 12:24 pm

Back to MPM issues for a minute. (I'm starting to get confused as to which thread for which issues!!)

Just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman at AA RTW desk, let's call him Mr. T. First, I note that he couldn't have been nicer.

He said that "American is not issuing" any tickets which touch Africa and have segments between Europe and Middle East in the itinerary. We reviewed the rules together; and he saw my point. Put me on hold and checked with the "tariff" desk. He agrees that it is ambiguous, but said that this is the position that AA is taking. Very apologetic. He said that there have been discussions about changing the wording in this section of the rules; and he hopes that it occurs this week since they are receiving a lot of calls on this.

Gave me the number for BA RTW desk; but they are a Monday-Friday operation.

So back to the drawing board on the itinerary, I guess.


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