AONE4 from Khartoum
Jul 29, 2011 | 8:30 am
#76
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PDX and Everywhere
Programs: *Alliance, OneWorld
Posts: 248
I might actually make a go at this later this fall - I haven't been to Sudan yet (either of them), so if I could get a visa, this would indeed be an ideal AONE4 starting point. For those who don't care about visiting KRT, as others have said it might not be the best choice.
Hopefully the pricing will remain steady for a bit longer...
Hopefully the pricing will remain steady for a bit longer...
Jul 29, 2011 | 5:44 pm
#77
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 206
The point I was making was in regard to an AONEx being issued in the Middle East.
It might very well be that having RJ be the first carrier, hence having the ticket issued by AA on RJ's behalf, might save some money overall in fuel surcharges. (But I'd caution not to overestimate the scale of savings. Do some dummy booking using the OWE tool - some with BA as the first/issuing carrier, and others with RJ/AA, and you might be surprised at how small the difference will be. Much depends on the route and carrier choice later.)
However my point was in the context of posters wanting the most first class bang for the buck. In the case of RJ as the first carrier, since there is no first class service into or out of AMM on Oneworld metal, choosing RJ means basically that at least the first, and potentially the first two, segments of 16 can't be in FC. In the case of KRT origins, it would be at least the first two, KRT-AMM and AMM-XXX, that would be in business class by definition.
In some peoples' minds, foregoing 2 FC segments out of 16 (at least) might be a sufficient disincentive that paying the extra YQ and/or country-of-issuance costs might be worth it, in order to originate in some country and/or some carrier that offers FC as soon as possible (which in the case of the Middle East means BA, full stop.)
It might very well be that having RJ be the first carrier, hence having the ticket issued by AA on RJ's behalf, might save some money overall in fuel surcharges. (But I'd caution not to overestimate the scale of savings. Do some dummy booking using the OWE tool - some with BA as the first/issuing carrier, and others with RJ/AA, and you might be surprised at how small the difference will be. Much depends on the route and carrier choice later.)
However my point was in the context of posters wanting the most first class bang for the buck. In the case of RJ as the first carrier, since there is no first class service into or out of AMM on Oneworld metal, choosing RJ means basically that at least the first, and potentially the first two, segments of 16 can't be in FC. In the case of KRT origins, it would be at least the first two, KRT-AMM and AMM-XXX, that would be in business class by definition.
In some peoples' minds, foregoing 2 FC segments out of 16 (at least) might be a sufficient disincentive that paying the extra YQ and/or country-of-issuance costs might be worth it, in order to originate in some country and/or some carrier that offers FC as soon as possible (which in the case of the Middle East means BA, full stop.)
Jul 29, 2011 | 6:50 pm
#79
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cayman, San Diego, London
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold, AA 4MM Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Amb, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 1,073
Do NOT start in RUH without entering SA
Just don't try using RUH (Riyadh) as a starting point for a RTW without entering the country for a night with the appropriate visa. We recently finished an AONE3 there and had return boarding passes issued at LHR for the RUH-LHR 1st segment. Upon arrival we were detained by Immigration, then by some scary army guys with rifles. They simply could not grasp why we were arriving on a BA flight and turning right round and returning. After two hours of worrying opposition we were allowed into the departure lounge and made the flight with minutes to spare. The absence of a visa seemed to be the major problem. It should also be mentioned that the treatment of my wife was disgraceful; she rightly refuses to finish this existing RTW in RUH so I've changed it to CAI which has once again become one of the better places to start a further RTW.
Sep 4, 2011 | 10:57 am
#81
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: AA Now dirt, BA Silver soon dirt EX NW IGE. EX BA Gold EX AA EXP x9. SQ Gold
Posts: 578
I think the exchange rate may complicate the issue, since it appears to differ from bank to bank.
Sep 25, 2011 | 11:30 am
#82
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,898
When I put thru an itin ex-KRT on the OneWorld RTW booking tool, and priced it out, then clicked on TAXES, to see the exact breakdown, there would be a "SDEM" tax of about $240 or so. It only appeared when I had itineraries that included Khartoum, so I'm just assuming. This is a Business class though
I think I'm giving up on KRT as a starting point, unless some political changes happen before my trip and they start handing out tourist visas to Americans willy-nilly. Not sure its worth the hassle to save the $1000 (with all those extra KRT costs) or so over flying from Amman. Would totally suck to try that 6-hour rule and not be allowed to disembark. Even if its the official rule, I think its a roll of the die what kind of officials you'll get at KRT.
I think I'm giving up on KRT as a starting point, unless some political changes happen before my trip and they start handing out tourist visas to Americans willy-nilly. Not sure its worth the hassle to save the $1000 (with all those extra KRT costs) or so over flying from Amman. Would totally suck to try that 6-hour rule and not be allowed to disembark. Even if its the official rule, I think its a roll of the die what kind of officials you'll get at KRT.
Seems that there is an exit tax of some type ex-KRT that is high. Just dropping the KRT-AMM flight removed the SDEM tax, but that is all. I was surprised that the YQ's were so high since the website used was AA's amedus site in the UK. No AA flights though. There are 3 BA long-haul flights which would account for all of the YQ's, so maybe more non-BA flights will bring the YQ down.
My estimate is that with all of the taxes + fees, the savings on just the air fare is $1600-1800 US. A definite YMMV as to whether it is worth the savings.
Sep 25, 2011 | 12:25 pm
#83
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: AA Now dirt, BA Silver soon dirt EX NW IGE. EX BA Gold EX AA EXP x9. SQ Gold
Posts: 578
BA YQ charges
Well, I did try a AONE4, routing of KRT-AMM-DXB-LHR-SFO-HKG-AKL-SYD-LHR -MCT. Base was $7603 US + fees of $1620 (735 YQ + 380 SDEM + others). An end anywhere in the Middle East is valid without any problem.
Seems that there is an exit tax of some type ex-KRT that is high. Just dropping the KRT-AMM flight removed the SDEM tax, but that is all. I was surprised that the YQ's were so high since the website used was AA's amedus site in the UK. No AA flights though. There are 3 BA long-haul flights which would account for all of the YQ's, so maybe more non-BA flights will bring the YQ down.
My estimate is that with all of the taxes + fees, the savings on just the air fare is $1600-1800 US. A definite YMMV as to whether it is worth the savings.
Seems that there is an exit tax of some type ex-KRT that is high. Just dropping the KRT-AMM flight removed the SDEM tax, but that is all. I was surprised that the YQ's were so high since the website used was AA's amedus site in the UK. No AA flights though. There are 3 BA long-haul flights which would account for all of the YQ's, so maybe more non-BA flights will bring the YQ down.
My estimate is that with all of the taxes + fees, the savings on just the air fare is $1600-1800 US. A definite YMMV as to whether it is worth the savings.
Thanks for the update on your ex KRT RTW!
I am still looking at KRT. It works quite well for AONE4 or AONE5 because of the lower base fares. I have done quite a few Aone4's from JNB and BKK. Looking back over the YQ charges it appears that adding in the BA segments does increase the YQ charges. Also the LHR stopover taxes flying in F have made LHR a very expensive transit. When EK/UA had a RTW fare, the extra taxes an a similar itinerary were less than half, But more to the point I priced an identical
Routing (same flights, dates, etc.) with CX, then AA and the taxes and YQ came out $700 (usd) cheaper. But the AA option might not be available ex KRT!
I am looking at an Aone 4 from JNB now since the rand seems to be weakening. Also there is a great GSM in CPT that represents AA.
An AONE4 from JNB/CPT is 72900 rand plus taxes.
Keep us posted!
Happy trails!
Sep 25, 2011 | 6:42 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PDX and Everywhere
Programs: *Alliance, OneWorld
Posts: 248
I'm actually thinking of doing this in December - or at least, I'm planning on visiting Khartoum and Juba, and this looks like a good way back out. I've found a travel agency that is helping with the visa, so if that comes through, I'll likely proceed.
Sep 25, 2011 | 9:58 pm
#85
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: LAX
Posts: 3,641
Every thrifty first-class-traveler's dream - keep us apprised, and good luck.
Sep 26, 2011 | 12:24 pm
#86
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,898
I did not actually fly that RTW, just was exercising the online booking interface. Sorry about that...
Nov 13, 2011 | 12:04 pm
#87
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7
Hello all.
I'm in early-planning part of AONE4 ex Khartoum (wish to do it in early 2013). The route should be something like this:
KPT->AMM (RJ: D)
AMM->DXB (RJ: D)
DXB->GRU (2 BA: A via LHR)
GRU->SCL (LA: D)
SCL->IPC (LA: D)
IPC->SCL (LA: D)
SCL->AKL (LA: D)
AKL->SYD (QF: D)
SYD->VFA (QF: A to HKG, CX: A to JNB, Comair: D to VFA)
VFA->CPT (2 Comair: D via JNB)
CPT->AUH (2 BA: A via LHR)
Total: A - 6 flights, D - 10 flights, ~ 41K miles.
Total price shown at RTW planning tool is 8923(fare) + 2092(taxes)=11 015 USD.
Have several questions:
1. If my route is going via HKG - is it counts as "+1 continent" and base fare increasing? Is this route AONE4 or AONE5?
2. Is stopover available in HKG? I didn't choose HKG as point while planning.
3. Am i right, that only BA First class from LHR to Soith America is to Sao Paolo? Any ideas when BA starts FirstClass to Buenos Aires?
4. Are there segments which can be easily changed from "D" to "A"? May be with some route change.
5. Is there any ways to break the price down by changing carriers or smth else? (still wish to have "A" on longhaul and at least 4 BA operated flights)
6. Can i buy this ticket at BA site? (I have co-brand CC with BA, so it would be more miles for purchase)
7. Any comments on route itself?
Thanks in advance.
I'm in early-planning part of AONE4 ex Khartoum (wish to do it in early 2013). The route should be something like this:
KPT->AMM (RJ: D)
AMM->DXB (RJ: D)
DXB->GRU (2 BA: A via LHR)
GRU->SCL (LA: D)
SCL->IPC (LA: D)
IPC->SCL (LA: D)
SCL->AKL (LA: D)
AKL->SYD (QF: D)
SYD->VFA (QF: A to HKG, CX: A to JNB, Comair: D to VFA)
VFA->CPT (2 Comair: D via JNB)
CPT->AUH (2 BA: A via LHR)
Total: A - 6 flights, D - 10 flights, ~ 41K miles.
Total price shown at RTW planning tool is 8923(fare) + 2092(taxes)=11 015 USD.
Have several questions:
1. If my route is going via HKG - is it counts as "+1 continent" and base fare increasing? Is this route AONE4 or AONE5?
2. Is stopover available in HKG? I didn't choose HKG as point while planning.
3. Am i right, that only BA First class from LHR to Soith America is to Sao Paolo? Any ideas when BA starts FirstClass to Buenos Aires?
4. Are there segments which can be easily changed from "D" to "A"? May be with some route change.
5. Is there any ways to break the price down by changing carriers or smth else? (still wish to have "A" on longhaul and at least 4 BA operated flights)
6. Can i buy this ticket at BA site? (I have co-brand CC with BA, so it would be more miles for purchase)
7. Any comments on route itself?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Novos; Nov 13, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Nov 13, 2011 | 2:07 pm
#88
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: AA Now dirt, BA Silver soon dirt EX NW IGE. EX BA Gold EX AA EXP x9. SQ Gold
Posts: 578
Just looking at the routing it did not look legal, but milage monkey said it was a valid routing. It does look like an Aone5.
However I do not think anyone has been able to fly a RTW from KRT recently.
Let us now how you are doing.
PS Welcome to Flyer TALK!
However I do not think anyone has been able to fly a RTW from KRT recently.
Let us now how you are doing.
PS Welcome to Flyer TALK!
Nov 13, 2011 | 2:17 pm
#89
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: QF Gold LTG (ow Saph), HHon Silver, Marriot Gold
Posts: 3,008
Novos,
Welcome. First thing to work out is can you get a Sudan visa easily (has put off most of us here who are not quite willing to risk a denied boarding before attempting a transit without visa).
On your questons.
1/2. I think it will be an AONE5 - the Asian exception only applies to EMEA-SWP (ie basically LHR-SYD/MEL) on single plane/ transit. This should mean you can stopover in HKG.
3. unsure
4. soth america is not great for A routes. maybe do a few more in asia if you want them (CX still runs A on a limited number)
5. change in price will be limited to fuel fines and UK APD (if only transiting LHR this will save a bit). fuel fines governed by ticketing carrier. AA may be cheaper
6. no
Welcome. First thing to work out is can you get a Sudan visa easily (has put off most of us here who are not quite willing to risk a denied boarding before attempting a transit without visa).
On your questons.
1/2. I think it will be an AONE5 - the Asian exception only applies to EMEA-SWP (ie basically LHR-SYD/MEL) on single plane/ transit. This should mean you can stopover in HKG.
3. unsure
4. soth america is not great for A routes. maybe do a few more in asia if you want them (CX still runs A on a limited number)
5. change in price will be limited to fuel fines and UK APD (if only transiting LHR this will save a bit). fuel fines governed by ticketing carrier. AA may be cheaper
6. no
Nov 13, 2011 | 10:51 pm
#90
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,687
there is no exception that allows an itinerary to 'touch' Asia - even just a transit - without paying for that continent
The exception you refer to allows a second vist to the continent; something which is generally not allowed
Also the exception is not restricted to the LHR-SIN/MEL direct flights, but to any transit without stopover.
IIRC someone recently reported being allowed the transit on an Africa-SWP transit of HKG
