[CONFIRMED] 1/6/09 NW E-mail: Plats to Pay $100 for Award Ticket Redeposits Beg 3/1
Jan 11, 2009, 9:05 am
#271
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP
Programs: DL DM, Marriott Plat, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,357
Star tribune contact
To all disgruntled Elites,
I believe we need to take a different approach to this situation.
Right now, we're all sending in TTU letters, all of which are getting responded with the same ludicrious form letter.
When we call the call center, the agents sympathize with us, and in many cases refer us back to FT...
I don't believe the general public is aware of, or understands, all of these changes, and how quickly our program is getting devalued. I believe it is time to get the Press involved - especially papers in hub cities (Detroit Free Press/Detroit News, Minneapolis Star Tribune). Does anybody have any contacts at these papers?
Hopefully some bad press will make DLNW change their minds, since apparently the voice of their most loyal (ex-)customers does not seem to matter...
I believe we need to take a different approach to this situation.
Right now, we're all sending in TTU letters, all of which are getting responded with the same ludicrious form letter.
When we call the call center, the agents sympathize with us, and in many cases refer us back to FT...
I don't believe the general public is aware of, or understands, all of these changes, and how quickly our program is getting devalued. I believe it is time to get the Press involved - especially papers in hub cities (Detroit Free Press/Detroit News, Minneapolis Star Tribune). Does anybody have any contacts at these papers?
Hopefully some bad press will make DLNW change their minds, since apparently the voice of their most loyal (ex-)customers does not seem to matter...
Reporter | Airlines
Phone: 612-673-7709
E-mail: [email protected]
Jan 11, 2009, 9:13 am
#272
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
To all disgruntled Elites,
I believe we need to take a different approach to this situation.
Right now, we're all sending in TTU letters, all of which are getting responded with the same ludicrious form letter.
When we call the call center, the agents sympathize with us, and in many cases refer us back to FT...
I don't believe the general public is aware of, or understands, all of these changes, and how quickly our program is getting devalued. I believe it is time to get the Press involved - especially papers in hub cities (Detroit Free Press/Detroit News, Minneapolis Star Tribune). Does anybody have any contacts at these papers?
Hopefully some bad press will make DLNW change their minds, since apparently the voice of their most loyal (ex-)customers does not seem to matter...
I believe we need to take a different approach to this situation.
Right now, we're all sending in TTU letters, all of which are getting responded with the same ludicrious form letter.
When we call the call center, the agents sympathize with us, and in many cases refer us back to FT...
I don't believe the general public is aware of, or understands, all of these changes, and how quickly our program is getting devalued. I believe it is time to get the Press involved - especially papers in hub cities (Detroit Free Press/Detroit News, Minneapolis Star Tribune). Does anybody have any contacts at these papers?
Hopefully some bad press will make DLNW change their minds, since apparently the voice of their most loyal (ex-)customers does not seem to matter...
Time to step up the pressure -- including by using NW-DL facilities to communicate to other DL-NW customers what is wrong with this picture and what it means for them. A customer-to-customer lobbying campaign will speak louder than any one passenger voting with just their own wallet. Convince others to vote with their hands and mouths and wallets too will send a much stronger message to DL-NW that this is not acceptable.
Here's a kind of model by which to approach this:
I suggest everyone -- particularly those of us who live in Western Europe and NL and France in particular -- act as negative ambassadors and spread the word as far as possible and as quickly as possible that FB and AFKL should be abandoned so that the group feels more pain more quickly and more deeply.
For example,
- tell as many colleagues, family, friends and acquaintances as you can how AFKL has lost their way and no longer deserves our business, tell them your real horror stories (which we all have) from the last couple of years and explain how your flying has improved after moving to ...;
- remove flying rights on AFKL for members of your company, subsidiary or division;
- write an opinion piece for your local newspaper or financial/business publication holding up FB, AFKL as an example of a company that has lost its way, demonstrating pitifully what not to do to their best customers in a business turndown and encouraging people to fly their competition;
- send complaint letters to the competition authorities holding up the decline in product and service quality, reneging of promises and abuse of market power as reasons for their competitive behavior to be investigated
- send complaint letters to the consumer and advertising authorities complaining about their bait and switch marketing techniques on miles earning which are retroactively not honored by new program terms;
- type reviews on airlinequality announcing the coming consumer-unfriendly changes which combined with abominable decreases in product and service quality and uncompetitive prices make AFKL no longer even a two star option
- step into at least two local travel agencies to investigate vacations. make sure you discuss with at least two staff your displeasure with FB and how AFKL have lost their way. Tell them how many years you have been loyal, how you see them abandoning you and warn them that if they book people FBers on AFKL that they will likely have to deal with some very disappointed people this next year who will learn they have been screwed on miles -- encourage them to warn people in advance and to consider better options to AFKL;
For example,
- tell as many colleagues, family, friends and acquaintances as you can how AFKL has lost their way and no longer deserves our business, tell them your real horror stories (which we all have) from the last couple of years and explain how your flying has improved after moving to ...;
- remove flying rights on AFKL for members of your company, subsidiary or division;
- write an opinion piece for your local newspaper or financial/business publication holding up FB, AFKL as an example of a company that has lost its way, demonstrating pitifully what not to do to their best customers in a business turndown and encouraging people to fly their competition;
- send complaint letters to the competition authorities holding up the decline in product and service quality, reneging of promises and abuse of market power as reasons for their competitive behavior to be investigated
- send complaint letters to the consumer and advertising authorities complaining about their bait and switch marketing techniques on miles earning which are retroactively not honored by new program terms;
- type reviews on airlinequality announcing the coming consumer-unfriendly changes which combined with abominable decreases in product and service quality and uncompetitive prices make AFKL no longer even a two star option
- step into at least two local travel agencies to investigate vacations. make sure you discuss with at least two staff your displeasure with FB and how AFKL have lost their way. Tell them how many years you have been loyal, how you see them abandoning you and warn them that if they book people FBers on AFKL that they will likely have to deal with some very disappointed people this next year who will learn they have been screwed on miles -- encourage them to warn people in advance and to consider better options to AFKL;
http://www.elliott.org/help/delta-air-lines/
Jan 11, 2009, 9:17 am
#273
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Posts: 3,395
I would also like to see an article that addresses the "Best of Both Worlds Aspect"
Some we already know about:
1. Delta Close in Fees, Northwest no close in award fees= Best of Both World's Outcome=Close in Fees
2. Delta 3 checked bags for elites, Northwest 2 free bags= Best of Both Worlds= 2 checked bags.
3. Delta 3 tier award system, highest tier much more expensive than Northwest, Northwest two tier system, highest tier lower than DL= Best of Both Worlds= 3 tier system with much higher "high" level redemption.
4. Delta higher saver levels to Hawaii, Europe, Northern South America, Northwest lower saver levels to all those= Best of Both Worlds= Delta's higher saver levels.
etc.
This is going to be a great article (especially after they formally announce the new program in a few weeks). A few other lines I fully expect:
1. Northwest Plats 1000 bonus miles when not upgraded on two class planes, DL Not Applicable= Best of both worlds= Not Applicable
2. Delta Companion upgrades for companions traveling on high fare classes at the lowest priority, Northwest Plat Companion upgrades from any fare class at Plat's priority= Best of Both Worlds= Companion upgrades from high fare classes and low priority.
Jan 11, 2009, 9:20 am
#274
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Programs: Amex Platinum, DL Diamond 2MM, PriorityPass, Hilton Honors Silver
Posts: 469
And amazingly, PerkSaver will become available when the close-in ticketing fees kick in. In other words, miles aren't free anymore. And screw you, customers.
I really, really wish I would've held off on my 3-year WC membership and booked AA (or anyone else) for my trip to LHR next week.
I really, really wish I would've held off on my 3-year WC membership and booked AA (or anyone else) for my trip to LHR next week.
Jan 11, 2009, 9:29 am
#275
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
humanoid94,
Nice job on that "best of both" approach.
When as a DL Platinum I don't get complimentary upgrades "domestically", DL often gives me a 500 mile "No upgrade" bonus.
Just something to keep in mind when going from NW's 1000 miles "no upgrade" bonus to DL's -- at best -- 500 miles "no upgrade" bonus.
Nice job on that "best of both" approach.
When as a DL Platinum I don't get complimentary upgrades "domestically", DL often gives me a 500 mile "No upgrade" bonus.
Just something to keep in mind when going from NW's 1000 miles "no upgrade" bonus to DL's -- at best -- 500 miles "no upgrade" bonus.
Jan 11, 2009, 10:24 am
#276
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YWG
Programs: AC SE100, SPG Plat, Visa Inf Priv
Posts: 509
If you think this is bad, try Air Canada
Not sure where to post this, but this seems to be the most active thread regarding DL / NW merger and FF's reaction to it.
As a recently minted NW PE (GE for many years), I'm sorry to see a lot of the benefits going away. For many reasons, I choose to give my loyalty to NW, even though it often requires an extra connection, and going through the US on international itineraries. Still can't use NW/DL within Canada, but that may change.
However, as a Canadian, I have the choice of going with our national flag carrier (Air Canada). Here's a perspective on their level of service:
Pros:
- newer planes with nicer in-flight product (domestic and international), good IFE even on CR9 (not on CRJ)
- pretty good international coverage, and good alliances (*A), although really favours Vancouver and Toronto hubs
- nice lounges (more European stye with food, newspapers, and magazines)
Cons:
- three elite levels 25/35/100 k (don't really get much unless SE - 100 k)
- low fares yield 50% and no status miles
- Only 125% status miles on most business fares
- no elite upgrades (you get a few paper SWU / SSWU often limited to certain higher fares)
- insane fuel surcharges
- very difficult reward redemption (e.g. 500 k to Australia in C + $1000 in surcharges)
- even standard international rewards to Europe (100 k) include surcharges of $600+
- hit and miss service / food
- unreliable winter service (I'm much more comfortable flying through MSP than YYZ or YVR during the winter in terms of delays / coping) - VERY EMBARRASSING as a Canadian after all we have winter here for 4-5 months!
Sorry, I'm no fan of Delta and love the old NWA. Best thing for me in YWG might be to re-start service to SLC or start ATL (please don't decrease MSP service to less than 5-6 flights per day). However, there are MUCH WORSE FF programs out there. Just trying to give some perspective.
As a recently minted NW PE (GE for many years), I'm sorry to see a lot of the benefits going away. For many reasons, I choose to give my loyalty to NW, even though it often requires an extra connection, and going through the US on international itineraries. Still can't use NW/DL within Canada, but that may change.
However, as a Canadian, I have the choice of going with our national flag carrier (Air Canada). Here's a perspective on their level of service:
Pros:
- newer planes with nicer in-flight product (domestic and international), good IFE even on CR9 (not on CRJ)
- pretty good international coverage, and good alliances (*A), although really favours Vancouver and Toronto hubs
- nice lounges (more European stye with food, newspapers, and magazines)
Cons:
- three elite levels 25/35/100 k (don't really get much unless SE - 100 k)
- low fares yield 50% and no status miles
- Only 125% status miles on most business fares
- no elite upgrades (you get a few paper SWU / SSWU often limited to certain higher fares)
- insane fuel surcharges
- very difficult reward redemption (e.g. 500 k to Australia in C + $1000 in surcharges)
- even standard international rewards to Europe (100 k) include surcharges of $600+
- hit and miss service / food
- unreliable winter service (I'm much more comfortable flying through MSP than YYZ or YVR during the winter in terms of delays / coping) - VERY EMBARRASSING as a Canadian after all we have winter here for 4-5 months!
Sorry, I'm no fan of Delta and love the old NWA. Best thing for me in YWG might be to re-start service to SLC or start ATL (please don't decrease MSP service to less than 5-6 flights per day). However, there are MUCH WORSE FF programs out there. Just trying to give some perspective.
Jan 11, 2009, 6:49 pm
#277
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New York, NY USA
Programs: DL DM/ 2MM, BA Silver, Amtrak Select Executive, SPG Life Plat/Amb, Fairmont Preferred
Posts: 1,056
I am faxing my continental status match request to NW on Monday.
Jan 11, 2009, 7:11 pm
#278
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Where you want to be
Programs: DL DM & 1MM, AA, BA, National Emerald
Posts: 384
"Many of these award seat bookings are held until the last minute and never flown. As a result, all WorldPerks members are unable to secure those seats."
I am still pissed that NW/DL is blaming the PE's for this change. How many is MANY that make no seats available?? Trying to make the other elites side with them!!
Thats it.. blame your most loyal customers for you dumb decisions!!
I am still pissed that NW/DL is blaming the PE's for this change. How many is MANY that make no seats available?? Trying to make the other elites side with them!!
Thats it.. blame your most loyal customers for you dumb decisions!!
Jan 11, 2009, 7:53 pm
#279
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, HH G
Posts: 2,454
So I'm not thrilled with the DL regime, but doing all my travel on AC has significant downsides as well. CO might have a better program than AC (and soon in *A), but if I fly mostly on AC metal, I won't get full benefits from that, either.
It's easy to tell people to run away, but I want to find some green grass first before jumping over a fence.
Jan 11, 2009, 9:36 pm
#280
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Highland PArk,IL,USA -- AA Lifetime Platinum, IHG Plat, UA Silver, Hilton Gold, Radisson Gold, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 2,366
Just posted a TTU and called PE line to post comments
Why I plan on going back to AA.
In 2003 I was comped Gold and have been PE since the middle of that year. Now that Delta, Jeff, has decided to inform me that I cannot change an award free of charge and give a nonsense reason it is time to leave.
Please don't lie to me and say the reason for the change is to free up awards that are canceled last minute is the reason. If this was the case charge me $100 to cancel an award with "X" number of days, say 14. It is clearly revenue.
When I find better routings, due to the limited space given out months ahead of time, for the same trip I am surely not affecting anybody’s ability to get an award. I'm keeping the same PNR, same place I'm going, just making it work for me. You guys don't give me a chance to find the best routing at first so I have to book what I can and leg in the changes as they free up.
I enjoyed it while I did but AA becomes my airline of choice.
Thanks for ruining a good thing. I'll come back after Delta is in BK again and they realize Jeff is the culprit.
In 2003 I was comped Gold and have been PE since the middle of that year. Now that Delta, Jeff, has decided to inform me that I cannot change an award free of charge and give a nonsense reason it is time to leave.
Please don't lie to me and say the reason for the change is to free up awards that are canceled last minute is the reason. If this was the case charge me $100 to cancel an award with "X" number of days, say 14. It is clearly revenue.
When I find better routings, due to the limited space given out months ahead of time, for the same trip I am surely not affecting anybody’s ability to get an award. I'm keeping the same PNR, same place I'm going, just making it work for me. You guys don't give me a chance to find the best routing at first so I have to book what I can and leg in the changes as they free up.
I enjoyed it while I did but AA becomes my airline of choice.
Thanks for ruining a good thing. I'll come back after Delta is in BK again and they realize Jeff is the culprit.
Jan 12, 2009, 6:27 am
#281
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
As DL "harmonizes" the DL and NW programs and the fees, watch out for yet another non-refundable DL award fee -- the partner award booking fee.
This costs $25 each time doing a booking that involves using DL miles for an itinerary that includes even one segment operated by a partner airline -- the fee is non-refundable and there is no exemption from it for Platinums either.
Yet another DL management-implemented award ticket fee to watch out for.
Welcome to Delta Airlines, where the customer is seen as the enemy or sheep to be fleeced.
This costs $25 each time doing a booking that involves using DL miles for an itinerary that includes even one segment operated by a partner airline -- the fee is non-refundable and there is no exemption from it for Platinums either.
Yet another DL management-implemented award ticket fee to watch out for.
Welcome to Delta Airlines, where the customer is seen as the enemy or sheep to be fleeced.
Jan 12, 2009, 6:34 am
#282
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Louis MO
Programs: Marriott PP, UA 1K, DL Plat, AA Life Gold, WN A-List
Posts: 382
I think this has been reported by others, but another data point...
I had to call the elite line to see about my seat on the AMS-LAX return in a couple weeks.
When done, I asked the gentleman if he had heard a lot about the award change fee. He laughed and said "Yes." I asked if they were keeping track of comments and he again said "Yes." I said put me down as a plat who was upset with the new fee. He said he would and proceeded to tell me about FT
Whether this has any effect, we'll see (and I'm not holding my breath) but we are being heard.
I had to call the elite line to see about my seat on the AMS-LAX return in a couple weeks.
When done, I asked the gentleman if he had heard a lot about the award change fee. He laughed and said "Yes." I asked if they were keeping track of comments and he again said "Yes." I said put me down as a plat who was upset with the new fee. He said he would and proceeded to tell me about FT
Whether this has any effect, we'll see (and I'm not holding my breath) but we are being heard.
Remember, this is an exercise in a zero-sum game. They are tallying our responses, yes. This to see how many NW elites they can drive out. That is the entire plan. They want to drive NW elites away. All the better for their ATL-based DL elites.
The operations research boys at Virginia Avenue have this entire thing gamed out. I reach this conclusion because there is no evidence to the contrary.
Jan 12, 2009, 9:34 am
#283
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SEA (previous locations: DTW, TLV, EWR, BOS)
Programs: AS: 75K; DL/NW: Plat; DL SC: Lifetime; Hyatt: Diamond; HH: Gold; SPG: Plat;
Posts: 3,383
To suggest our voices are heard as high as possible, I propose we begin a call-in campaign right to Bob Soukup's office.
I have his direct number, but per FT rules, cannot post it here.
If you are interested in receiving this phone number, please PM me. Feel free to pass along to other disgruntled Plats who are not going to accept these changes laying down!
Jan 12, 2009, 10:15 am
#284
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
I know you're upset (I'm still a Plat, too, with 200k in miles), but think how you would like it if your company made some policy decisions and the general public started bombarding you with calls to complain. You'd probably just unplug your phone after the first few calls, wouldn't you? And you'd probably have a lot less respect for the organization that started the campaign to call you at work.
Jan 12, 2009, 10:18 am
#285
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SEA (previous locations: DTW, TLV, EWR, BOS)
Programs: AS: 75K; DL/NW: Plat; DL SC: Lifetime; Hyatt: Diamond; HH: Gold; SPG: Plat;
Posts: 3,383
I know you're upset (I'm still a Plat, too, with 200k in miles), but think how you would like it if your company made some policy decisions and the general public started bombarding you with calls to complain. You'd probably just unplug your phone after the first few calls, wouldn't you? And you'd probably have a lot less respect for the organization that started the campaign to call you at work.
Not to mention Bob isn't taking the calls himself, an assistant is answering them. Maybe she can keep a log of these calls...