nwa/Delta MERGER: General Discussion
Apr 15, 2008, 2:32 am
#151
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 600k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,950
A "Fantasia" Chimera
Memphis and Cincinnati will not survive. Memphis is too close to Atlanta. If a NW hub goes first, then "DL" gives up CVG, thus also preserving DTW. There will be fewer BOS-LGA-DCA flights. It will be Worldperks => Skymiles at 1:1 (look at when DL got a big piece of Pan Am). Some Worldperks members will find themselves "Million Mile Flyers". The foregoing is already worked out.
UA-CO announces by the day after tomorrow. AA gasps and goes on the hunt big-time, maybe even knows already and announces before UA-CO. (As Bush's closest buddy on the whole playing field, what all this does to AA is paramount.) The airlines know that everything must happen by January. "The devil you know." Including business not knowing what that pesky McCain would do. (OMG, another Teddy Roosevelt? THIS is emblematic of what worries the talking heads' bosses most about McCain.)
Except for what Southwest does, all this means less of everything for us, homage to "worldwide network expansion" notwithstanding.
Sideshow with some of the biggest implications on the plus side for us: Southwest will finally (be) push(-ed) into ATL and MSP to preserve competition. Would say that they buy Alaska or JetBlue, but spokesman recently said "Can't!" and "brick walls" to changes (in aircraft, ETOPS) such moves would require of Southwest. Instead, they just grow the old fashioned way, inevitably. (Cue music from "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia.)
UA-CO announces by the day after tomorrow. AA gasps and goes on the hunt big-time, maybe even knows already and announces before UA-CO. (As Bush's closest buddy on the whole playing field, what all this does to AA is paramount.) The airlines know that everything must happen by January. "The devil you know." Including business not knowing what that pesky McCain would do. (OMG, another Teddy Roosevelt? THIS is emblematic of what worries the talking heads' bosses most about McCain.)
Except for what Southwest does, all this means less of everything for us, homage to "worldwide network expansion" notwithstanding.
Sideshow with some of the biggest implications on the plus side for us: Southwest will finally (be) push(-ed) into ATL and MSP to preserve competition. Would say that they buy Alaska or JetBlue, but spokesman recently said "Can't!" and "brick walls" to changes (in aircraft, ETOPS) such moves would require of Southwest. Instead, they just grow the old fashioned way, inevitably. (Cue music from "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia.)
Apr 15, 2008, 2:34 am
#152
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 5,577
Man, I just arrived at the NRT WC and when I open my mail
I see this gloomy news. I am sitting on nearly 900k miles
plus 10 r/t from BizPerks. What to do? 40 years since I
started in this business, so many carriers have disappeared.
It's a shame, and it just does not end. I have already missed
the old NW Orient, now I will miss NW, a good friend since
PANAM and NW shared their Asian destinations for so many
decades. I just recovered from being bummed out over Aloha's
demise, now this. When will it end???
I see this gloomy news. I am sitting on nearly 900k miles
plus 10 r/t from BizPerks. What to do? 40 years since I
started in this business, so many carriers have disappeared.
It's a shame, and it just does not end. I have already missed
the old NW Orient, now I will miss NW, a good friend since
PANAM and NW shared their Asian destinations for so many
decades. I just recovered from being bummed out over Aloha's
demise, now this. When will it end???
Apr 15, 2008, 2:34 am
#153
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,806
NW pilots are already on the record against the merger. From the AP tonight:
"Northwest pilots concluded it was an arrangement to 'try to disadvantage the Northwest pilots economically and with respect to our seniority,' Northwest pilot chairman Dave Stevens wrote in a memo late Monday.
'No pilot group is going to put up with this. No amount of money can sustain a carrier which creates this level of discord,' he wrote.
So... how are they not going to put up with this?[/QUOTE]
Remember last summer and all of the cancellations? That will be a cake walk compared with what they can do.
IAM is twisted because they were never consulted. Think BAA has problems with luggage?
The Flight Attendant group is really working hard to get their problems worked out. The trouble of course is management getting in the way.
"Northwest pilots concluded it was an arrangement to 'try to disadvantage the Northwest pilots economically and with respect to our seniority,' Northwest pilot chairman Dave Stevens wrote in a memo late Monday.
'No pilot group is going to put up with this. No amount of money can sustain a carrier which creates this level of discord,' he wrote.
So... how are they not going to put up with this?[/QUOTE]
Remember last summer and all of the cancellations? That will be a cake walk compared with what they can do.
IAM is twisted because they were never consulted. Think BAA has problems with luggage?
The Flight Attendant group is really working hard to get their problems worked out. The trouble of course is management getting in the way.
Apr 15, 2008, 2:38 am
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Honolulu, Hawaiʻi [+MKK4 EBBER R577 EDSEL R577 ELKEY EXERT]
Posts: 15,826
Man, I just arrived at the NRT WC and when I open my mail
I see this gloomy news. I am sitting on nearly 900k miles
plus 10 r/t from BizPerks. What to do? 40 years since I
started in this business, so many carriers have disappeared.
It's a shame, and it just does not end. I have already missed
the old NW Orient, now I will miss NW, a good friend since
PANAM and NW shared their Asian destinations for so many
decades. I just recovered from being bummed out over Aloha's
demise, now this. When will it end???
I see this gloomy news. I am sitting on nearly 900k miles
plus 10 r/t from BizPerks. What to do? 40 years since I
started in this business, so many carriers have disappeared.
It's a shame, and it just does not end. I have already missed
the old NW Orient, now I will miss NW, a good friend since
PANAM and NW shared their Asian destinations for so many
decades. I just recovered from being bummed out over Aloha's
demise, now this. When will it end???
Apr 15, 2008, 2:45 am
#155
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 600k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,950
A "Fantasia" Chimera
Memphis and Cincinnati will not survive. Memphis is too close to Atlanta. If a NW hub goes first, then "DL" gives up CVG, thus also preserving DTW. There will be fewer BOS-LGA-DCA flights. It will be Worldperks => Skymiles at 1:1 (look at when DL got a big piece of Pan Am). Some Worldperks members will find themselves "Million Mile Flyers". The foregoing is already worked out.
UA-CO announces by the day after tomorrow. AA gasps and goes on the hunt big-time, maybe even knows already and announces before UA-CO. (As Bush's closest buddy on the whole playing field, what all this does to AA is paramount.) The airlines know that everything must happen by January. "The devil you know." Including business not knowing what that pesky McCain would do. (OMG, another Teddy Roosevelt? THIS is emblematic of what worries the talking heads' bosses most about McCain.)
Except for what Southwest does, all this means less of everything for us, homage to "worldwide network expansion" notwithstanding.
Sideshow with some of the biggest implications on the plus side for us: Southwest will finally (be) push(-ed) into ATL and MSP to preserve competition. Would say that they buy Alaska or JetBlue, but spokesman recently said "Can't!" and "brick walls" to changes (in aircraft, ETOPS) such moves would require of Southwest. Instead, they just grow the old fashioned way, inevitably. (Cue music from "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia.)
UA-CO announces by the day after tomorrow. AA gasps and goes on the hunt big-time, maybe even knows already and announces before UA-CO. (As Bush's closest buddy on the whole playing field, what all this does to AA is paramount.) The airlines know that everything must happen by January. "The devil you know." Including business not knowing what that pesky McCain would do. (OMG, another Teddy Roosevelt? THIS is emblematic of what worries the talking heads' bosses most about McCain.)
Except for what Southwest does, all this means less of everything for us, homage to "worldwide network expansion" notwithstanding.
Sideshow with some of the biggest implications on the plus side for us: Southwest will finally (be) push(-ed) into ATL and MSP to preserve competition. Would say that they buy Alaska or JetBlue, but spokesman recently said "Can't!" and "brick walls" to changes (in aircraft, ETOPS) such moves would require of Southwest. Instead, they just grow the old fashioned way, inevitably. (Cue music from "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia.)
Apr 15, 2008, 3:00 am
#156
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
Wow- is there anybody else who thinks some of this merger activity has any positive implications?
I'm primarily an international flyer (in J/C) and am hoping this consolidation gives NWDL and UACO the resources to pick up their acts on international routes. While I think the 4 airlines could expand coverage internationally without combining, I don't see they having the resources separately to do fleet upgrades and new plane acquisitions to really stay competitive. If they don't stay competitive the other carriers around the world will eat their lunch, the money losing US domestic markets will bleed them dry and we wont have any FF programs left at all...
I'm primarily an international flyer (in J/C) and am hoping this consolidation gives NWDL and UACO the resources to pick up their acts on international routes. While I think the 4 airlines could expand coverage internationally without combining, I don't see they having the resources separately to do fleet upgrades and new plane acquisitions to really stay competitive. If they don't stay competitive the other carriers around the world will eat their lunch, the money losing US domestic markets will bleed them dry and we wont have any FF programs left at all...
Apr 15, 2008, 3:02 am
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,544
Apr 15, 2008, 3:22 am
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Santa Claus is coming to town!
So how is this going to cover the kerosene they burn when oil is $110/barrel & rising?
No hubs closing.
Nobody laid off.
Only a very small number (12, as I recall) of overlapping routes.
Everybody will be happy. Employees will get travel passes on both airlines ASAP (will NW employees still have to pay for theirs?)
HQ in Atlanta. Oh heck, we'll have an HQ at MSP, too. Anyone else need an HQ?
What am I missing here?
Has anyone seen Rudolph?
Maybe if I shuddup for another week I will see the light and experience the bliss.
No hubs closing.
Nobody laid off.
Only a very small number (12, as I recall) of overlapping routes.
Everybody will be happy. Employees will get travel passes on both airlines ASAP (will NW employees still have to pay for theirs?)
HQ in Atlanta. Oh heck, we'll have an HQ at MSP, too. Anyone else need an HQ?
What am I missing here?
Has anyone seen Rudolph?
Maybe if I shuddup for another week I will see the light and experience the bliss.
Apr 15, 2008, 3:37 am
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Wow- is there anybody else who thinks some of this merger activity has any positive implications?
I'm primarily an international flyer (in J/C) and am hoping this consolidation gives NWDL and UACO the resources to pick up their acts on international routes. While I think the 4 airlines could expand coverage internationally without combining, I don't see they having the resources separately to do fleet upgrades and new plane acquisitions to really stay competitive. If they don't stay competitive the other carriers around the world will eat their lunch, the money losing US domestic markets will bleed them dry and we wont have any FF programs left at all...
I'm primarily an international flyer (in J/C) and am hoping this consolidation gives NWDL and UACO the resources to pick up their acts on international routes. While I think the 4 airlines could expand coverage internationally without combining, I don't see they having the resources separately to do fleet upgrades and new plane acquisitions to really stay competitive. If they don't stay competitive the other carriers around the world will eat their lunch, the money losing US domestic markets will bleed them dry and we wont have any FF programs left at all...
So how is this going to cover the kerosene they burn when oil is $110/barrel & rising?
No hubs closing.
Nobody laid off.
Only a very small number (12, as I recall) of overlapping routes.
Everybody will be happy. Employees will get travel passes on both airlines ASAP (will NW employees still have to pay for theirs?)
HQ in Atlanta. Oh heck, we'll have an HQ at MSP, too. Anyone else need an HQ?
What am I missing here?
Has anyone seen Rudolph?
Maybe if I shuddup for another week I will see the light and experience the bliss.
No hubs closing.
Nobody laid off.
Only a very small number (12, as I recall) of overlapping routes.
Everybody will be happy. Employees will get travel passes on both airlines ASAP (will NW employees still have to pay for theirs?)
HQ in Atlanta. Oh heck, we'll have an HQ at MSP, too. Anyone else need an HQ?
What am I missing here?
Has anyone seen Rudolph?
Maybe if I shuddup for another week I will see the light and experience the bliss.
You are missing the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy
If anyone actually believes that crap then they deserve what they get. There WILL be Layoffs (Lots of them), there will be SEVERAL hub closures, WP ABSOLUTLEY will be devalued, and prices will go up. There is no silver lining here...just good ole fashioned ice cold business decisions.
Last edited by thezipper; Apr 25, 2008 at 9:46 am Reason: Consecutive Posts by OP
Apr 15, 2008, 3:56 am
#160
Join Date: May 2000
Location: ORD
Posts: 197
You are missing the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy
If anyone actually believes that crap then they deserve what they get. There WILL be Layoffs (Lots of them), there will be SEVERAL hub closures, WP ABSOLUTLEY will be devalued, and prices will go up. There is no silver lining here...just good ole fashioned ice cold business decisions.
If anyone actually believes that crap then they deserve what they get. There WILL be Layoffs (Lots of them), there will be SEVERAL hub closures, WP ABSOLUTLEY will be devalued, and prices will go up. There is no silver lining here...just good ole fashioned ice cold business decisions.
My problem with staying is that I am not sure on whom or what to put my trust that good decisions will be made. The track record is very dicey in that department.
Flying ain't what it used to be - when one could be a human and be treated like one every time.
Apr 15, 2008, 4:07 am
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
I agree. Reducing costs = reducing jobs. The HUB reduction is the obvious next step. Though I am not sure where I go next, this is a very sad day. With the UA/Co merger looming now and my complete disdain for AA, I may be forced to stay. Ah, freedom of choice......
My problem with staying is that I am not sure on whom or what to put my trust that good decisions will be made. The track record is very dicey in that department.
Flying ain't what it used to be - when one could be a human and be treated like one every time.
My problem with staying is that I am not sure on whom or what to put my trust that good decisions will be made. The track record is very dicey in that department.
Flying ain't what it used to be - when one could be a human and be treated like one every time.
Sad day indeed.
I sent a TTU today asking if NW was going to run a double EQM for the same amount of time. I also asked about the NW SWU program for next year as I am not even thinking about going past 75K (I am almost there now) until I hear that SWU's will pull from the C and F buckets next year. Obviously, I don't expect anyone to know the answers to these questions but I want NW management to know we are thinking about them long an hard. If they do not do anything about the double EQM devaluation I will start booking AA immediately. I can get to plat with them if I start now.
Apr 15, 2008, 4:19 am
#162
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: National Capitol Region
Programs: Delta Dirt Medallion,AA,USairways, WN Rapid Rewards, National Emerald Club
Posts: 3,912
Delta=low quality
Well, the fact that Delta Skymiles is inferior to Worldperks has been established on this board and discussed ad nauseaum.
I'll also observe that Delta and Comair scored low in the latest airline quality measures. Amongst the legacies Delta was close to the bottom (only USairways had a worse quality rating). Comair also scored low.
So not only do we have to look forward to a devaluation in our FF miles, we also have to suffer with low quality Delta. Link - http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/04/06...f=mpstoryemail
I'll also observe that Delta and Comair scored low in the latest airline quality measures. Amongst the legacies Delta was close to the bottom (only USairways had a worse quality rating). Comair also scored low.
So not only do we have to look forward to a devaluation in our FF miles, we also have to suffer with low quality Delta. Link - http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/04/06...f=mpstoryemail
Apr 15, 2008, 4:31 am
#163
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A City near you, at least for right now.
Programs: LT Platinum Marriott/Starwood; Exec Plat AA; LT Plat AA
Posts: 368
You can be assured that your WorldPerks miles and Elite program status will be unaffected by this news. In addition, you can continue to earn miles with confidence on Northwest and all of our mileage partners.
Sincerely,
Doug Steenland
President and CEO
Northwest Airlines
Yeah, since WP is going away... i'm 100% positive that WP will be unaffected... Now its sit and wait to see if SkyMiles takes any of the goodness from WP, or stays the same. If it stays the same good by SkyTeam. I cannot do any program on Miles... but I can do any on segments
And most of my fares are in Y/B with $1000-1200 range per ticket! I guess time will tell if DL wants my ~$50K/yr
Apr 15, 2008, 4:36 am
#164
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CGK & PBI
Programs: Cruise addict and AirBNB Plat :)
Posts: 3,312
I have no clue about how easy or how difficult it is to use SkyMiles to redeem on SQ, but you were misinformed about the difficulty of redeeming MileagePlus miles on SQ. I have found it extremely easy to redeem on SQ in the past using my UA miles, even more so than redeeming on UA's own flights. Now, if you were told that it is very difficult to find inventory on SQ's new premium cabin product on the 77W and impossible on the 380, that undoubtedly is correct. But the 744s and the rest of the fleet still offer redemption opportunities aplenty, at least for Star Alliance redemptions. And as good as the 380 and 77W product evidently is, the older Raffles product is hardly chopped liver.
I'm glad you brought this up. I remember about a year ago how NW said they were able to "lock in" oil price at $90 some bucks per barrel. What ever happened with this deal?
Last edited by slippahs; Apr 20, 2008 at 10:56 pm Reason: merging two posts
Apr 15, 2008, 4:47 am
#165
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP
Programs: DL DM, Marriott Plat, National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,357
Sad day indeed.
I sent a TTU today asking if NW was going to run a double EQM for the same amount of time. I also asked about the NW SWU program for next year as I am not even thinking about going past 75K (I am almost there now) until I hear that SWU's will pull from the C and F buckets next year. Obviously, I don't expect anyone to know the answers to these questions but I want NW management to know we are thinking about them long an hard. If they do not do anything about the double EQM devaluation I will start booking AA immediately. I can get to plat with them if I start now.
I sent a TTU today asking if NW was going to run a double EQM for the same amount of time. I also asked about the NW SWU program for next year as I am not even thinking about going past 75K (I am almost there now) until I hear that SWU's will pull from the C and F buckets next year. Obviously, I don't expect anyone to know the answers to these questions but I want NW management to know we are thinking about them long an hard. If they do not do anything about the double EQM devaluation I will start booking AA immediately. I can get to plat with them if I start now.