Likelihood our flight canceled or disrupted toward end of month (july)
Jul 28, 2007, 4:04 pm
#106
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Astoria, NY: LGA, JFK
Programs: Delta PM; Sheraton's Vistana BOD; SPG Gold
Posts: 2,035
2. Security lawsuits based on "faltering performance" will rarely, if ever, succeed unless there is fraud or a violation of security regulations.
Jul 28, 2007, 4:31 pm
#107
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: DL DM/MM; UA Premier 1K; AA EXP; ICH Plat Ambassador
Posts: 1,565
Re #1: They get more independent as the cesspool deepens.
Re #2: Whether such a lawsuit succeeds doesn't matter. No director is going to want to sit through videotaped depositions regarding his/her role in buying off on a business plan that is not based in reality.
Jul 28, 2007, 6:05 pm
#108
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Some place in this wonderful world (usually at 39,000 ft in seat 1C)
Programs: CO Gold Elite / NW Gold Elite
Posts: 13,747
Socrates wrote"...my question for you is how many NW flights have you taken this year? I've reached gold via both miles and segments (coming close to plat on segments these days)...Given you're history of posts I believe it's fair for everyone to know if you actually are flying red tail or not"
Please observe the TOS's.Address the issues rather than attack other posters.Thanks.
Please observe the TOS's.Address the issues rather than attack other posters.Thanks.
But I do believe we have a right to know if you are speaking from experience by using NWA's service as often as we are, are you an outsider looking in or with us on board the planes several times a week? For better or worse you have set a precident for yourself elsewhere, but again this is not an attack but a request for clarification on your point of view
The 90 you refer to is flight hours, which generally excludes other time spent working before the aircraft door closes for departure and after it is re-opened upon landing. While the very senior widebody pilots who fly international turns have a very favorable work/life balance, narrowbody pilots "work" as much or more than the average person.
You ask why it's absurd, because when you purchase a ticket you enter into a contract, the terms of that contract are spelled out in the contract of carriage, it spells out exactly what will occur in this type of situation, they are living up to the contract, just because you dont like the fact that this is occurring doesn't give you legal grounds to file a suit, it would be dismissed immediately, if you filed enough of these the airline could go after you for filing frivolous suits, if the court found you guilty of this you would be liable for the airlines costs which were incurred by your actions
Last edited by slippahs; Jul 28, 2007 at 7:40 pm Reason: post consolidated from 4 -> 1
Jul 28, 2007, 7:58 pm
#109
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,201
Is 90 Hours Actually 90 Hours of Flight Time?
A lot has been made of 90 flight hours being excessive and how it bumps up against the FAA 100/1000 hour max. Is the NW/Union flight hour different from the FAA. Somewhere in the back of my mind lies the possibility of hours given for overnight stays etc. If true, pilots would be more like the above business man in hours worked. AND maybe the union should allow willing pilots to get a little OT.
Jul 28, 2007, 9:30 pm
#110
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pasadena,Ca.,US.
Programs: AA, Delta, United, SPG plat, Hyatt dia
Posts: 7,140
Although I consider Socrates's question far from pertinant to the question/situation at hand let me state that I do have an active,recent, interest in NWA-I will leave it at that.It is totally irrelevant-and might be considered a smokescreen to hide the topic at hand-whether I fly NWA as much as the other poster to this board.I am a NWA customer-that is enough.
Unlike some posters here I am fortunate to have access to a major international airport which is serviced by all major airlines.
Bringing up the fact that I gave "set a precedent for myself elsewhere" might be seen by some as an attempt to shade my postings here in a less than favorable light.
Again,please address the issues rather than attempt to analyze other posters thank you.
Unlike some posters here I am fortunate to have access to a major international airport which is serviced by all major airlines.
Bringing up the fact that I gave "set a precedent for myself elsewhere" might be seen by some as an attempt to shade my postings here in a less than favorable light.
Again,please address the issues rather than attempt to analyze other posters thank you.
Jul 28, 2007, 9:38 pm
#111
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: TPA, PHL
Programs: NW: SE & WC
Posts: 2,136
I am going to be out of the country for the majority of august, with some flights in early august. If flights are cancelled (specifically when traveling in WBC), how accommodating are Worldclub agents in putting fliers in business class on other carriers. I have begun to cary a list of all the airlines and flight numbers flying on the routes I am taking, from each connecting point. I haven;t had it happen yet, but I plan on showing the agent the options and asking them to put me in business or first on one of the flights. What are the chances of success should this happen?
I've found the WC to be especially helpful, generally if they can do something for you, they will.
Jul 28, 2007, 11:58 pm
#112
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DTW
Posts: 70
Here is a link to an "Internal Northwest memo to employees" posted by the Detroit News, concerning the cancellations
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../BIZ/707280304
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../BIZ/707280304
Jul 29, 2007, 9:46 am
#113
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
let me state that I do have an active,recent, interest in NWA-I will leave it at that.It is totally irrelevant-and might be considered a smokescreen to hide the topic at hand-whether I fly NWA as much as the other poster to this board.I am a NWA customer-that is enough.
If you don't fly NW more than once or twice per year, you don't really have the amount of experiences with the airline that the rest of us have and have so much less to draw upon when forming an opinion. Yes, if you've ever given NW a dime, then you are a customer. But for the people who fly NW several times per week or more, their experiences are going to be a lot more accurate since they have more "data" to pull from. That can't be argued or denied.
As for your "active, recent, interest in NWA", if you have friends or family that work for NWA, perhaps that also clouds your perception if you or they feel like they aren't getting a fair deal from NWA in terms of their employment. And if you work for NWA or used to, then that lends even more to the idea that you may have other biases at work besides simply traveling the airline frequently like many people on this board do.
Jul 29, 2007, 11:49 am
#114
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pasadena,Ca.,US.
Programs: AA, Delta, United, SPG plat, Hyatt dia
Posts: 7,140
It's perfectly relevant.
If you don't fly NW more than once or twice per year, you don't really have the amount of experiences with the airline that the rest of us have and have so much less to draw upon when forming an opinion. Yes, if you've ever given NW a dime, then you are a customer. But for the people who fly NW several times per week or more, their experiences are going to be a lot more accurate since they have more "data" to pull from. That can't be argued or denied.
As for your "active, recent, interest in NWA", if you have friends or family that work for NWA, perhaps that also clouds your perception if you or they feel like they aren't getting a fair deal from NWA in terms of their employment. And if you work for NWA or used to, then that lends even more to the idea that you may have other biases at work besides simply traveling the airline frequently like many people on this board do.
If you don't fly NW more than once or twice per year, you don't really have the amount of experiences with the airline that the rest of us have and have so much less to draw upon when forming an opinion. Yes, if you've ever given NW a dime, then you are a customer. But for the people who fly NW several times per week or more, their experiences are going to be a lot more accurate since they have more "data" to pull from. That can't be argued or denied.
As for your "active, recent, interest in NWA", if you have friends or family that work for NWA, perhaps that also clouds your perception if you or they feel like they aren't getting a fair deal from NWA in terms of their employment. And if you work for NWA or used to, then that lends even more to the idea that you may have other biases at work besides simply traveling the airline frequently like many people on this board do.
The obfuscation demonstrated in post such as these are of no help whatsoever,and also reek of what I like to call "last wordiness".A personality trai that is,fortunately,avoided on flyertalk by the use of the ignore button.
Jul 29, 2007, 12:16 pm
#115
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: NW: In the back of the bus
Posts: 84
"FAILURE TO OPERATE ON SCHEDULE
EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PROVIDED IN THIS RULE, NW SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE FOR FAILURE TO OPERATE ANY FLIGHT ACCORDING TO
SCHEDULE, OR FOR CHANGING THE SCHEDULE OF ANY NW FLIGHT,
WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO THE PASSENGER. THIS EXCLUSION
FROM LIABILITY INCLUDES ACTUAL DAMAGES, CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF DAMAGES (WHATEVER THEY MAY BE
CALLED OR HOWEVER THEY ARE DESCRIBED). THE PROVISIONS OF
THIS RULE APPLY ONLY TO PASSENGERS WHO HAVE A VALID TICKET
REFLECTING A CONFIRMED RESERVATION ON A FLIGHT WHICH THEY DO
NOT USE DUE TO SCHEDULE IRREGULARITY (AS DEFINED IN A)8)
BELOW."
http://www.nwa.com/plan/contract2.pdf
Is there a MINIMUM amount of flight time that pilots are entitled to under their contract? I don't want this to be a labor vs. management question/statement. But, based on a purely economic view of the situation, an economic view being the study of scarcity, isn't what the pilots are doing counterproductive in the long haul? If the pilots as a group all picked up the extra time the company needed them to, it seems as if NW would not have had to bring in new hires/furloughed pilots. So now what happens in the lean season with all the new pilots on board? Without NW sending many back on furlough, which would be a costly proposition, too many hours turns quickly into too few. It would seem the pilots would want LESS competition for flying hours, rather than more.
My 2 pennies
Jul 29, 2007, 12:33 pm
#116
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Upper Midwest
Programs: DL, AA
Posts: 1,677
Yes, there are minimum flight hours. However, at Northwest I'm sure that nobody flies these minimums. The only realisticaly possible pilots that do so are the new hires at the regionals.
90 flight hours may not seem like a lot, but when you add in the FAA mandated rest hours plus all the rest of the time pilots are preparing for flying, it gets to be very long. When they do get true off time (not just FAA mandated rest), minus the sleeping that needs to be caught up on, there is not much time left to do things with or for their family. And pilots don't have desks or blackberrys that they are able to communicate with people back home to solve little problems that require their attention; they are busy doing the required procedures or actual flying, and more often than not can't divert their attention away from the job.
There is a good article in the StarTrib about the pilot market: http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1328757.html
90 flight hours may not seem like a lot, but when you add in the FAA mandated rest hours plus all the rest of the time pilots are preparing for flying, it gets to be very long. When they do get true off time (not just FAA mandated rest), minus the sleeping that needs to be caught up on, there is not much time left to do things with or for their family. And pilots don't have desks or blackberrys that they are able to communicate with people back home to solve little problems that require their attention; they are busy doing the required procedures or actual flying, and more often than not can't divert their attention away from the job.
There is a good article in the StarTrib about the pilot market: http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1328757.html
Jul 29, 2007, 1:53 pm
#117
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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Location: MUC
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Posts: 48,187
If you are willing not to see your family for 4-5 weeks at a stretch, theres plenty of work for A32S and 737NG flight deck crew for good pay in emerging markets. I would definitely look into that before tossing a pilots license and becoming a truck driver... 
Jul 29, 2007, 2:06 pm
#118
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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Jul 29, 2007, 2:12 pm
#119
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
The point in the article was that he decided to become the truck driver in order to see his family more. Going to be a pilot in an emerging market would only worsen the situation.
Jul 29, 2007, 2:26 pm
#120
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,201
Since there are truck driver jobs that would be away from home more than a pilot, he obviously limited his search to the ones that would get him home each night. He could have done the same in the airline business. A side question: Are the non revs madder at the "sick" pilots than the paying passengers?