Airline "devils"
Oct 16, 1999 | 9:26 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi Punki 
Could you email me your original unedited reply.
Could you email me your original unedited reply.
Oct 16, 1999 | 9:39 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Savannah, MO USA
Posts: 33
This may seem a little late, but maybe a little comic relief...
Just wanted to inform you, Knowitall, that if you check the shelves of your local supermarket, you may be surprised to find out that sugar is now sold in 4 lb packages.... :-)
Anyway, my personal experience has been with most carriers that you do catch more with sugar than salt...
Now that lines have been drawn in the sand so to speak, you won't get anything else from NWA...
I would perhaps have expected a larger certificate, but your expectation of a free ticket would have probably never been realized.
I hate to drag on, but there were several points not made in your letters... What was the reason for the earlier flight delay? Weather? Mechanical? It does make a difference...
Also, sounds like you made your connection, but with such a large chip on your shoulder (I'm not saying you did just that's the impression you have painted for us...) it is easy to see how you wouldn't get the best of treatment...
Just my thoughts...
Just wanted to inform you, Knowitall, that if you check the shelves of your local supermarket, you may be surprised to find out that sugar is now sold in 4 lb packages.... :-)
Anyway, my personal experience has been with most carriers that you do catch more with sugar than salt...
Now that lines have been drawn in the sand so to speak, you won't get anything else from NWA...
I would perhaps have expected a larger certificate, but your expectation of a free ticket would have probably never been realized.
I hate to drag on, but there were several points not made in your letters... What was the reason for the earlier flight delay? Weather? Mechanical? It does make a difference...
Also, sounds like you made your connection, but with such a large chip on your shoulder (I'm not saying you did just that's the impression you have painted for us...) it is easy to see how you wouldn't get the best of treatment...
Just my thoughts...
Oct 17, 1999 | 1:32 pm
#18
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York
Posts: 2,115
If you keep experiencing bad service, why are you still a shareholder?
Oct 18, 1999 | 10:53 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
A few points.
1) You weakest point undermines your strongest point. When writing letters of complaint, stay focused and direct. Superlatives are nothing but noise. Thus a remark, "I doubt this aircraft has ever been cleaned" is ignored because the CSRs understand that (a) the aircraft has been cleaned, and (b) someone to exaggerating one problem is likely to exaggerate others.
Don't take this as a shot, but you have to remember that what happens in the "corridors of power" in DC does not reflect the real world. Politicians make points by exaggeration and hysteria. Hysertia draws attention (read: free media coverage).
When you write a letter of complaint, you need to remember that you are trying to convince someone that you were wronged. This means PERSUADING. Beating someone over the head is a lot less effective than trying to win them over.
Think about it, which would you rather read:
"Your gate agent was rude and obnoxious to me."
"Your gate agent's attitude was not up to the standards I've enjoyed from your airline in the past. He/she was curt and impolite."
The second SOUNDS weaker, but it is stronger because it is (1) more positive about the airline, (2) original (thus setting this apart from the rest of the complaint pile) and (3) POLITE. "Rude" and "Obnoxious" are red-flag words. "Curt" and "Impolite" mean the same thing, but have a more courteous and genteel reception. Polite pays, whether you are dealing with a CEO or assistant toilet-scrubber.
2) Any east coast trip to Orlando is cheap. A $75 voucher probably reflects a 50% or more refund of what you paid. They still got you there, and it was cheaper then (and even moreso now) than alternative transportation. They're not going to give you over 100% of your refund unless there was some sort of tragedy. Running through an airport does not qualify.
3) Someone saying "no" does not classify them as a "devil". If so, every parent in the world is one. Turning this personal against the individuals named is not a good idea. He is not making this personal against you - he is doing his job. I understand that this is simply unfathomable in DC, but again, returning to the real world, this is just a guy answering mail.
4) You're beating a dead horse. You've gotten the best they're going to offer you. Get on with your life.
When you grow up, and especially when you have kids, you'll understand the importance of picking your battles.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
1) You weakest point undermines your strongest point. When writing letters of complaint, stay focused and direct. Superlatives are nothing but noise. Thus a remark, "I doubt this aircraft has ever been cleaned" is ignored because the CSRs understand that (a) the aircraft has been cleaned, and (b) someone to exaggerating one problem is likely to exaggerate others.
Don't take this as a shot, but you have to remember that what happens in the "corridors of power" in DC does not reflect the real world. Politicians make points by exaggeration and hysteria. Hysertia draws attention (read: free media coverage).
When you write a letter of complaint, you need to remember that you are trying to convince someone that you were wronged. This means PERSUADING. Beating someone over the head is a lot less effective than trying to win them over.
Think about it, which would you rather read:
"Your gate agent was rude and obnoxious to me."
"Your gate agent's attitude was not up to the standards I've enjoyed from your airline in the past. He/she was curt and impolite."
The second SOUNDS weaker, but it is stronger because it is (1) more positive about the airline, (2) original (thus setting this apart from the rest of the complaint pile) and (3) POLITE. "Rude" and "Obnoxious" are red-flag words. "Curt" and "Impolite" mean the same thing, but have a more courteous and genteel reception. Polite pays, whether you are dealing with a CEO or assistant toilet-scrubber.
2) Any east coast trip to Orlando is cheap. A $75 voucher probably reflects a 50% or more refund of what you paid. They still got you there, and it was cheaper then (and even moreso now) than alternative transportation. They're not going to give you over 100% of your refund unless there was some sort of tragedy. Running through an airport does not qualify.
3) Someone saying "no" does not classify them as a "devil". If so, every parent in the world is one. Turning this personal against the individuals named is not a good idea. He is not making this personal against you - he is doing his job. I understand that this is simply unfathomable in DC, but again, returning to the real world, this is just a guy answering mail.
4) You're beating a dead horse. You've gotten the best they're going to offer you. Get on with your life.
When you grow up, and especially when you have kids, you'll understand the importance of picking your battles.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Oct 18, 1999 | 10:56 am
#20
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
By the way, didn't Sen. McCarthy also implore folks to "name names".
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Oct 18, 1999 | 11:32 am
#21
Original Poster
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Promoted to Chairman of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines Highly Valuable OnePass Program Security and Ideological Purity Bureau
Posts: 4,129
Sorry I haven't been on here in a while. You all gave some great replies.
Someone had earlier mentioned that the company should not have to, for instance, shell out $200 to 1,000 customers for its problems. To that, I would respond that NW decided not to spend the money on anything else productive. Instead of paying for it one way, they are paying for it in another.
Second, govt. intervention is powerful. Airlines HATE when people complain to the DOT. And as far as passengers rights legislation goes, airlines do NOT want to step on the toes of anyone who could turn those bills into laws.
Finally, don't even ask me why I am a shareholder in NW. I bought it a little over a year ago when it looked like things might actually change for the better. Now it, along with CO, has went down in price so much that it makes practially no sense to sell it.
Someone had earlier mentioned that the company should not have to, for instance, shell out $200 to 1,000 customers for its problems. To that, I would respond that NW decided not to spend the money on anything else productive. Instead of paying for it one way, they are paying for it in another.
Second, govt. intervention is powerful. Airlines HATE when people complain to the DOT. And as far as passengers rights legislation goes, airlines do NOT want to step on the toes of anyone who could turn those bills into laws.
Finally, don't even ask me why I am a shareholder in NW. I bought it a little over a year ago when it looked like things might actually change for the better. Now it, along with CO, has went down in price so much that it makes practially no sense to sell it.
Oct 18, 1999 | 3:27 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
Avek:
I agree that government intervention is powerful, and as a private citizen, I hate what happens when the government gets involved in ANYTHING.
Let me give you a history lesson: The government's causing the S&L crisis.
Even the harshest critics agree that the S&L failures due to fraud was around 2%. (including Whitewater and Castle Grande).
The remaining 98% was due to TAMRA. The Tax And Misc. Revenue Act of 1986, which, without any phaseout whatsoever, killed the tax advantages of owning multiple properties. Sounds "fair", right? Stick it to the rich, and all that, right?
Small problem - it left tens of thousands of developers and general contractors, many of whom who are FAR from rich, with properties which were incredibly devalued. They were relying on the booming real estate demand to sell these properties.
Overnight, the demand virtually evaporates. So what do they do? They walk away and declare bankruptcy. I can't blame them - there simply is no other alternative for them. They've got families to feed.
So enough of these little guys go under, and S&L's, which valued properties in a RADICALLY different market are left holding the bag on real estate that is worth MUCH less, because the tax incentive to own it is gone.
So, in an effort to get more money from the rich, the government virtually destroyed the S&L market (and an UNBELIEVABLE expense), and damaged the construction industry so badly that it has took more than 10 years to recover.
So pardon me if I PANIC at the thought of the government sticking its incompetent nose into yet another business.
The law of unintended consequences is a real problem, one the government takes FAR too lightly. Effective governing comes from studying the problem from ALL angles, not just studying the latest opinion poll written to support the predetermined position.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
[This message has been edited by Jon Toner (edited 10-18-1999).]
I agree that government intervention is powerful, and as a private citizen, I hate what happens when the government gets involved in ANYTHING.
Let me give you a history lesson: The government's causing the S&L crisis.
Even the harshest critics agree that the S&L failures due to fraud was around 2%. (including Whitewater and Castle Grande).
The remaining 98% was due to TAMRA. The Tax And Misc. Revenue Act of 1986, which, without any phaseout whatsoever, killed the tax advantages of owning multiple properties. Sounds "fair", right? Stick it to the rich, and all that, right?
Small problem - it left tens of thousands of developers and general contractors, many of whom who are FAR from rich, with properties which were incredibly devalued. They were relying on the booming real estate demand to sell these properties.
Overnight, the demand virtually evaporates. So what do they do? They walk away and declare bankruptcy. I can't blame them - there simply is no other alternative for them. They've got families to feed.
So enough of these little guys go under, and S&L's, which valued properties in a RADICALLY different market are left holding the bag on real estate that is worth MUCH less, because the tax incentive to own it is gone.
So, in an effort to get more money from the rich, the government virtually destroyed the S&L market (and an UNBELIEVABLE expense), and damaged the construction industry so badly that it has took more than 10 years to recover.
So pardon me if I PANIC at the thought of the government sticking its incompetent nose into yet another business.
The law of unintended consequences is a real problem, one the government takes FAR too lightly. Effective governing comes from studying the problem from ALL angles, not just studying the latest opinion poll written to support the predetermined position.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
[This message has been edited by Jon Toner (edited 10-18-1999).]
Oct 21, 1999 | 9:27 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6
avek00,
I can most certainly sympathize with your frustration. Obviously a gentlemen of your refinement and sensitivity is accustomed to only the very, very best. Here are some things you might try to help you avoid these petty annoyances in the future:
1. Only buy full-fare first class tickets. All airlines provide special lines and services for those persons willing to pay the price. Coach travel should definitely be left to the young, and resilient
2. Buy an additional full-fare first class ticket for your servant, so that he/she might enter the plane with cleaning equipment, and spiff it up prior to your entrance.
3. You might just consider buying your own 747 and appointing and operating it, just the way you like. By so doing, you will never again be subjected to the foibles of commercial air travel. I am certain this decision would bring both you and NWA great relief.
I can most certainly sympathize with your frustration. Obviously a gentlemen of your refinement and sensitivity is accustomed to only the very, very best. Here are some things you might try to help you avoid these petty annoyances in the future:
1. Only buy full-fare first class tickets. All airlines provide special lines and services for those persons willing to pay the price. Coach travel should definitely be left to the young, and resilient
2. Buy an additional full-fare first class ticket for your servant, so that he/she might enter the plane with cleaning equipment, and spiff it up prior to your entrance.
3. You might just consider buying your own 747 and appointing and operating it, just the way you like. By so doing, you will never again be subjected to the foibles of commercial air travel. I am certain this decision would bring both you and NWA great relief.
Oct 21, 1999 | 10:16 am
#24
Original Poster
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Promoted to Chairman of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines Highly Valuable OnePass Program Security and Ideological Purity Bureau
Posts: 4,129
HA HA HA...NOT FUNNY!!
One thing I forgot to mention: the reason why we were initially held up for 25 mins. at EWR was because check-in went SO slowly, in part because only 1 person was handling the gate.
One thing I forgot to mention: the reason why we were initially held up for 25 mins. at EWR was because check-in went SO slowly, in part because only 1 person was handling the gate.
Oct 21, 1999 | 4:11 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 365
I realize this is only partly related to the topic. This thread discusses the long lines handled by only 1 agent. Check the long lines in the am in West Coast airlines like SEA, LAX, SFO (because of the time zones, many travel in the am). Electronic check-in is usually much faster but has limited flexibility. UA just yanked their e-check in.