Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Possible extreme security imminent

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 12:59 am
  #106  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tokyo and anyplace cheaper
Programs: Delta Diamond. SPG Plat. Hyatt Diamond. Segafredo coffee stamp card, inContinental
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by chwillia
I don't like the fact that I will not be able to protect myself from all the funk on a NWA plane after the TSA takes my bottle of Purell. It would be one thing if NWA cleaned anything but since the seat back pockets, tray tables, and bathrooms tend to be overloaded with funk it will be like walking in to a leper colony with zero protection. I'm doomed!
its lucky that leprosy isn't contagious then
werldporks is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 2:03 am
  #107  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tokyo and anyplace cheaper
Programs: Delta Diamond. SPG Plat. Hyatt Diamond. Segafredo coffee stamp card, inContinental
Posts: 474
Unhappy your own body is the next security target

None of these restrictions on carry-on items will stop suicidal terrorist attacks on airliners.
Im convinced that it is only a matter of time (and a short amount of time at that) before one or more airliners are downed by terrorists with the explosives implanted within their bodies
The triggering-device could be anything at all. It might be via a cellphone (the next item to be banned from bringing onboard) or another electronic item, or something as unstoppable as a subcutaneous pressure switch - simply physically apprehending and manhandling the bomber being sufficient to detonate the device within his/her body.
This is not far-fetched. Im quite convinced that its the logical and inevitable next step for the determined bomber. Denied the opportunity to carry an explosive device concealed in innocuous-seeming hand-luggage it is the certain near-future terrorist modus operandi.

So unless the root causes of terrorism are fully addressed we can all expect exponentially-increasing security checks, delays, and justifiable anxiety.
werldporks is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 3:54 am
  #108  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Continental Gold Elite, United Premier Executive
Posts: 6,766
Originally Posted by hnewman
We continue to use the global approach to stop everyone including my 94 year old grandmother from bringing on what she needs like water on a regular basis. As children we always complained when the whole class got punished from the acts of a few, why do we accept this now. Screen and stop who needs to be screen, get the Registered Traveler thing working so those of us that travel weekly can not stop at Walgreens when we land to get deodorant and toothpaste, and let's do profiling at the airport. I realize this is sacrosanct to our nation, but we are loosing more freedom not being able to carryon chapstick. No I am not some rightwing nut case and am in fact middle of the road, but we need to admit that a 94 year old woman who needs regular water is not going to take a plane down. Put the effort where it is needed not globally apply it to all of us.
It is this kind of thinking that creates the loopholes that terrorists have tried to use in the past to carry out a plot. The 94 y/o grandma with somewhat limited mental faculties may have zero intention of bringing down a plane, but her walker or bag can be used by someone else to do so, with grandma being none the wiser. Thus the need to either perform global screening (with objective profiling to target those who warrant additional screening) or else don't screen at all and accept the risk.

Anyone who tries to implement racial profiling as a tool should immediately fired from TSA/DHS because it is ineffective discriminatory treatment. Al-Qaeda and its sympathizers have long since moved past using only Middle Easterners for attacks.
HeathrowGuy is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 4:01 am
  #109  
40 Nights
50 Countries Visited
5M
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mesilla, NM
Programs: DL DM 4.7 MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium AA PL Not chasing status Retired!
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
It is this kind o thinkin that creates the loopholes that terrorists have used successfully in the past to carry out a plot. The 94 y/o grandma with somewhat limited mental faculties may have zero intention of bringing down a plane, but her walker or bag can be used by someone else to do so, with grandma being none the wiser. Thus the need to either perform global screening (with objective profiling to target those who warrant additional screening) or else don't screen at all and accept the risk. Anyone who tries to implement racial profiling as a tool should immediately fired from TSA/DHS because it is ineffective discriminatory treatment.
My 94 year old grandma does not use a walker or cane and does the New York Times crossword daily and to show us all up in pen. After 9/11 in October I was randomly choosen weekly for 6 weeks running. Skipped a week and then 7 weeks running skipping Christmas week as I did not travel. It did not make me feel a bit safer and once I got choosen three times in a day. Once at security once at plane side on my first flight and once on a connection. It is absurd.
hnewman is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 4:31 am
  #110  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Continental Gold Elite, United Premier Executive
Posts: 6,766
Fair enough, but my point still stands - effective security is objective in nature, universal in scope, and refrains from the use of idiosyncratic -isms to the maximum extent possible.

Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?

Last edited by HeathrowGuy; Aug 11, 2006 at 4:40 am
HeathrowGuy is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 4:44 am
  #111  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Short term stock play:

Proctor and Gamble

Theory: Every traveler in the US who does not want to check (I am one of them) luggage will now have to buy 1. Shampoo 2. Deodorant 3. Toothpaste 4. Saline Solution when they arrive at their destination and then throw it all away before they return home.

P+G will report much better than expected revenues next quarter! Maybe I can make a killing and start travelling for FUN!!!!
avidflyer is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 4:48 am
  #112  
40 Nights
50 Countries Visited
5M
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mesilla, NM
Programs: DL DM 4.7 MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium AA PL Not chasing status Retired!
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
Fair enough, but my point still stands - effective security is objective in nature, universal in scope, and refrains from the use of idiosyncratic -isms to the maximum extent possible.

Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?
All reasonable points but it is time that we figure out some way to increase the odd of catching someone. Picking out someone who travels for business regularly for the last 25 years in random searches does not make us safer. We need to figure out a way of triaging people so the odds are in our favor not the terrorist. Suggestions?
hnewman is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 5:00 am
  #113  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
Originally Posted by NWAFA
Crew members go through security check points just like the passengers.

Since 9/11 happened, all airline personnel have to undergo a 10 year, FBI background search. During the first waves of FBI background checks, thousands of airline/airport personnel were terminated.

About the only thing they would forgive is parking tickets.
This would be one explanation why airlines would work so hard to limit their personnel. Where possible, they must ask themselves the question "is this person really needed as an employee, and can't they be a contractor, considering the expense of just hiring them?".

steve B.
sbagdon is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 5:02 am
  #114  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Programs: NW Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 416
Those of you who continue to say "profiling doesn't work"...I strongly suggest that you read the excellent article that was posted on Time.com last night about El-Al and their security measures, it's titled "The Toughest Airline Security of All" and is on their front page right now. Actually, here's a link:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html

There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.

FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.

Last edited by H2O_Goalie; Aug 11, 2006 at 5:07 am Reason: Expansion
H2O_Goalie is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 6:48 am
  #115  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Programs: Northwest Platinum
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by H2O_Goalie
Those of you who continue to say "profiling doesn't work"...I strongly suggest that you read the excellent article that was posted on Time.com last night about El-Al and their security measures, it's titled "The Toughest Airline Security of All" and is on their front page right now. Actually, here's a link:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html

There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.

FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.
While profiling may (or may not) work, we all must agree that simply scrutinizing those that fit the profile is a bad way of handling things, because then two things happen. a) terrorists learn who is being scrutinized and who is not, and will use white people to pull of their atrocities, and b) we will let slip through those terrorists who don't fit the profile (Richard Reid for example).
sany2 is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 6:57 am
  #116  
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,407
Originally Posted by werldporks
So unless the root causes of terrorism are fully addressed we can all expect exponentially-increasing security checks, delays, and justifiable anxiety.
Do you really see the root causes of terrorism being addressed GLOBALLY in our lifetimes? Whether it's militarily or by negotiating or by educating the potential bombers. I don't! So I guess as long as there are religious radicals educating young followers to kill westerners - - anywhere from mosques in Europe to caves in the mountains of the Middle East - - I guess we'll all have to put up with an increasing amount of crap, sometimes to the point of feeling like our civil liberties are being choked off, if we want to enjoy the pleasures of air travel. - - - or until someone invents a human fax machine - or transporter-like deivce from Star Trek!! (which to some degree I hope never happens as my entire livelihood is in the limo biz with 98% airport transportation!!)

Actually, as much as I fly, often times when I go through security, I've wondered why liquid chemicals / explosives couldn't get through. Then I just think that the US government (and others around the world) must know what they're doing and that all is OK!! Yeah, right! So, if I could think of it, and I'm sure other frequent travellers have too, what's stoppiing someone with a twisted mind - particularly someone who's educated and trained to think and act like a killer -from actually attempting to do something about it!!
davetravels is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 6:59 am
  #117  
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Seattle & Seoul.... and now, Maastricht....
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, NWA WorldPerks deserter, Alaska Airlines Something-er-Other...
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by t-rev
What about these

Purell Wipes
Those things are great! I actually prefer them over the liquid sanitizer..... But as it stands right now, if magazines can't make it on the plane, can handi-wipes???
Paella747 is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 7:11 am
  #118  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PBI | Formerly CLT, LHR & AMS (with just a bit of PSP)
Programs: Proud AA CK Spouse, AA Plat, HH Diamond, BonVoy Titanium, Caesars7* (comp), Wynn Black, HR Icon
Posts: 8,208
Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP
I'm embarking on a MR tomorrow (this morning, I guess). I'll be flying standby on another airline, then picking up NW, flying to the west coast, redeying back overnight to the east coast, and then standing by for a flight home.

This was all booked last week, back when I could have my water, my toothpaste, my deoderant, and my contact lens solution. Now I'm not sure what I will do. I'm not really leaving any of the airports on this run, so I can't stock up at a gas station/Target, etc. If the reports are true and the convenience stores in the airport aren't selling some of these items, this is really going to be a hellish weekend.
With all due respect, while one might agree or disagree with the new rules; the one thing I am certain about is that the TSA (or anyone else for that matter) was NOT taking into account Mileage Run activity. Nothing against MR's --- but, I don't really think there is much basis to complain. Remember, this is a totally optional flight activity.

Last edited by baccarat_king; Aug 11, 2006 at 7:17 am
baccarat_king is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 7:21 am
  #119  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE MI.
Posts: 309
Pavlov's dog...

I think we should all start wearing rubber gloves....

OT abit but... just had an image flash by me.... When it is your turn to "pass" in the security line walk right up to the TSA folks and "snap" the glove, extend your pointer finger and wiggle it around as if you were going to give "them" an exam....

Most guys >40+ know the routine and will likely have a "Pavlov's dog" kind of reaction when they hear that glove snap. It'll put a little fear in their heart.

Last edited by dlouise37; Aug 11, 2006 at 12:02 pm Reason: typo
dlouise37 is offline  
Old Aug 11, 2006 | 7:22 am
  #120  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Programs: NW Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by sany2
While profiling may (or may not) work, we all must agree that simply scrutinizing those that fit the profile is a bad way of handling things, because then two things happen. a) terrorists learn who is being scrutinized and who is not, and will use white people to pull of their atrocities, and b) we will let slip through those terrorists who don't fit the profile (Richard Reid for example).
Then explain El-Al's outstanding security record. A record established while being the no-doubt-top-of-the-list target for any terrorist worth his/her salt. You clearly didn't read the article. Reid would have crumbled had he been subjected to the kind of scrutiny that El-Al uses. At least be informed before you respond.
H2O_Goalie is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.