Possible extreme security imminent
#106
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tokyo and anyplace cheaper
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Originally Posted by chwillia
I don't like the fact that I will not be able to protect myself from all the funk on a NWA plane after the TSA takes my bottle of Purell. It would be one thing if NWA cleaned anything but since the seat back pockets, tray tables, and bathrooms tend to be overloaded with funk it will be like walking in to a leper colony with zero protection. I'm doomed!
#107
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None of these restrictions on carry-on items will stop suicidal terrorist attacks on airliners.
Im convinced that it is only a matter of time (and a short amount of time at that) before one or more airliners are downed by terrorists with the explosives implanted within their bodies
The triggering-device could be anything at all. It might be via a cellphone (the next item to be banned from bringing onboard) or another electronic item, or something as unstoppable as a subcutaneous pressure switch - simply physically apprehending and manhandling the bomber being sufficient to detonate the device within his/her body.
This is not far-fetched. Im quite convinced that its the logical and inevitable next step for the determined bomber. Denied the opportunity to carry an explosive device concealed in innocuous-seeming hand-luggage it is the certain near-future terrorist modus operandi.
So unless the root causes of terrorism are fully addressed we can all expect exponentially-increasing security checks, delays, and justifiable anxiety.
Im convinced that it is only a matter of time (and a short amount of time at that) before one or more airliners are downed by terrorists with the explosives implanted within their bodies
The triggering-device could be anything at all. It might be via a cellphone (the next item to be banned from bringing onboard) or another electronic item, or something as unstoppable as a subcutaneous pressure switch - simply physically apprehending and manhandling the bomber being sufficient to detonate the device within his/her body.
This is not far-fetched. Im quite convinced that its the logical and inevitable next step for the determined bomber. Denied the opportunity to carry an explosive device concealed in innocuous-seeming hand-luggage it is the certain near-future terrorist modus operandi.
So unless the root causes of terrorism are fully addressed we can all expect exponentially-increasing security checks, delays, and justifiable anxiety.
#108
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Originally Posted by hnewman
We continue to use the global approach to stop everyone including my 94 year old grandmother from bringing on what she needs like water on a regular basis. As children we always complained when the whole class got punished from the acts of a few, why do we accept this now. Screen and stop who needs to be screen, get the Registered Traveler thing working so those of us that travel weekly can not stop at Walgreens when we land to get deodorant and toothpaste, and let's do profiling at the airport. I realize this is sacrosanct to our nation, but we are loosing more freedom not being able to carryon chapstick. No I am not some rightwing nut case and am in fact middle of the road, but we need to admit that a 94 year old woman who needs regular water is not going to take a plane down. Put the effort where it is needed not globally apply it to all of us.
Anyone who tries to implement racial profiling as a tool should immediately fired from TSA/DHS because it is ineffective discriminatory treatment. Al-Qaeda and its sympathizers have long since moved past using only Middle Easterners for attacks.
#109




Join Date: Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
It is this kind o thinkin that creates the loopholes that terrorists have used successfully in the past to carry out a plot. The 94 y/o grandma with somewhat limited mental faculties may have zero intention of bringing down a plane, but her walker or bag can be used by someone else to do so, with grandma being none the wiser. Thus the need to either perform global screening (with objective profiling to target those who warrant additional screening) or else don't screen at all and accept the risk. Anyone who tries to implement racial profiling as a tool should immediately fired from TSA/DHS because it is ineffective discriminatory treatment.
#110
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Fair enough, but my point still stands - effective security is objective in nature, universal in scope, and refrains from the use of idiosyncratic -isms to the maximum extent possible.
Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?
Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?
Last edited by HeathrowGuy; Aug 11, 2006 at 4:40 am
#111
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Short term stock play:
Proctor and Gamble
Theory: Every traveler in the US who does not want to check (I am one of them) luggage will now have to buy 1. Shampoo 2. Deodorant 3. Toothpaste 4. Saline Solution when they arrive at their destination and then throw it all away before they return home.
P+G will report much better than expected revenues next quarter! Maybe I can make a killing and start travelling for FUN!!!!
Theory: Every traveler in the US who does not want to check (I am one of them) luggage will now have to buy 1. Shampoo 2. Deodorant 3. Toothpaste 4. Saline Solution when they arrive at their destination and then throw it all away before they return home.
P+G will report much better than expected revenues next quarter! Maybe I can make a killing and start travelling for FUN!!!!
#112




Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mesilla, NM
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
Fair enough, but my point still stands - effective security is objective in nature, universal in scope, and refrains from the use of idiosyncratic -isms to the maximum extent possible.
Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?
Furthermore, Al-Qaeda and its allies have moved away from using Middle Eastern people- so who should be subject to "profiling"? Black people like one of the 7/7 bombers? Young white men like al-Qaeda John Walker Lindh and homegrown terrorist Timothy McVeigh?
#113
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by NWAFA
Crew members go through security check points just like the passengers.
Since 9/11 happened, all airline personnel have to undergo a 10 year, FBI background search. During the first waves of FBI background checks, thousands of airline/airport personnel were terminated.
About the only thing they would forgive is parking tickets.
Since 9/11 happened, all airline personnel have to undergo a 10 year, FBI background search. During the first waves of FBI background checks, thousands of airline/airport personnel were terminated.
About the only thing they would forgive is parking tickets.
steve B.
#114
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Programs: NW Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 416
Those of you who continue to say "profiling doesn't work"...I strongly suggest that you read the excellent article that was posted on Time.com last night about El-Al and their security measures, it's titled "The Toughest Airline Security of All" and is on their front page right now. Actually, here's a link:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html
There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.
FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html
There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.
FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.
Last edited by H2O_Goalie; Aug 11, 2006 at 5:07 am Reason: Expansion
#115
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Programs: Northwest Platinum
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by H2O_Goalie
Those of you who continue to say "profiling doesn't work"...I strongly suggest that you read the excellent article that was posted on Time.com last night about El-Al and their security measures, it's titled "The Toughest Airline Security of All" and is on their front page right now. Actually, here's a link:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html
There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.
FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...225479,00.html
There is no more revilied group in the Middle East than the Israelis, and I'd venture a guess that an attack on an El-Al plane is a terrorist's wet dream. But there hasn't been one in decades. I wonder why. Profiling does work. But it's not politically correct. Sooner or later, we'll have to determine if we (the US) are more concerned with political correctness or security.
FWIW...arguments about domestic terrorism are silly. Oklahoma City took place more than 11 years ago, we haven't had a similar instance since then despite no real security measures that would prevent another occurence. On the other hand, terrorists with a Middle-Eastern origin have shown plenty of wilingness to keep coming at us.
#116
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Originally Posted by werldporks
So unless the root causes of terrorism are fully addressed we can all expect exponentially-increasing security checks, delays, and justifiable anxiety.
Actually, as much as I fly, often times when I go through security, I've wondered why liquid chemicals / explosives couldn't get through. Then I just think that the US government (and others around the world) must know what they're doing and that all is OK!! Yeah, right! So, if I could think of it, and I'm sure other frequent travellers have too, what's stoppiing someone with a twisted mind - particularly someone who's educated and trained to think and act like a killer -from actually attempting to do something about it!!
#117


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Originally Posted by t-rev
#118




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Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP
I'm embarking on a MR tomorrow (this morning, I guess). I'll be flying standby on another airline, then picking up NW, flying to the west coast, redeying back overnight to the east coast, and then standing by for a flight home.
This was all booked last week, back when I could have my water, my toothpaste, my deoderant, and my contact lens solution. Now I'm not sure what I will do. I'm not really leaving any of the airports on this run, so I can't stock up at a gas station/Target, etc. If the reports are true and the convenience stores in the airport aren't selling some of these items, this is really going to be a hellish weekend.
This was all booked last week, back when I could have my water, my toothpaste, my deoderant, and my contact lens solution. Now I'm not sure what I will do. I'm not really leaving any of the airports on this run, so I can't stock up at a gas station/Target, etc. If the reports are true and the convenience stores in the airport aren't selling some of these items, this is really going to be a hellish weekend.
Last edited by baccarat_king; Aug 11, 2006 at 7:17 am
#119
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE MI.
Posts: 309
Pavlov's dog...
I think we should all start wearing rubber gloves....
OT abit but... just had an image flash by me.... When it is your turn to "pass" in the security line walk right up to the TSA folks and "snap" the glove, extend your pointer finger and wiggle it around as if you were going to give "them" an exam....
Most guys >40+ know the routine and will likely have a "Pavlov's dog" kind of reaction when they hear that glove snap. It'll put a little fear in their heart.
OT abit but... just had an image flash by me.... When it is your turn to "pass" in the security line walk right up to the TSA folks and "snap" the glove, extend your pointer finger and wiggle it around as if you were going to give "them" an exam....
Most guys >40+ know the routine and will likely have a "Pavlov's dog" kind of reaction when they hear that glove snap. It'll put a little fear in their heart.
Last edited by dlouise37; Aug 11, 2006 at 12:02 pm Reason: typo
#120
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Programs: NW Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by sany2
While profiling may (or may not) work, we all must agree that simply scrutinizing those that fit the profile is a bad way of handling things, because then two things happen. a) terrorists learn who is being scrutinized and who is not, and will use white people to pull of their atrocities, and b) we will let slip through those terrorists who don't fit the profile (Richard Reid for example).

