NEWS: The Overall Northwest To File Chpt 11 Thread
Sep 13, 2005, 4:15 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Hyatt Dia, Marriott Lifetime Plat, Delta Gold
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by mikensf74
Isn't Airlines filing for Chapter 11 the "in" thing to do these days? =)
"everyones doing it".
"everyones doing it".
The recent decision allowing UA to jetison its huge pension burden undoubtedly was music to the ears of the other 5 big airlines.
Sep 13, 2005, 5:30 pm
#47
Suspended
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Problem is, the investment community has soured on airline bankruptcies - note that US' merger plan with HP has no major Wall Street bank backing, United's BK financing is virtually all-debt, and DL will barely get 20 cents on every dollar of assets for usable DIP cash.
Sep 13, 2005, 5:31 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PHX/SFO/LAX
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Posts: 7,784
Originally Posted by wask
AA's finances aren't that good either. Personally I dont think AA can afford to buy NWA even at $1.50 now.
Sep 13, 2005, 5:59 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CHI, BOS, SFO
Programs: AA EXP, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,667
I'm personally not worried.
First UA, then US, (then US again...) ATA...whose next?
Most likely DH, DL and NW...everyone has been saying it for months but will any of them actually fold? Maybe, but considering that the previous 3 are all still around in some capacity tells me that I shouldn't be scared that NW is gonna stop flying anytime soon, bankruptcy or not
Now I'd be worried if i was the owner of NW stock
First UA, then US, (then US again...) ATA...whose next?
Most likely DH, DL and NW...everyone has been saying it for months but will any of them actually fold? Maybe, but considering that the previous 3 are all still around in some capacity tells me that I shouldn't be scared that NW is gonna stop flying anytime soon, bankruptcy or not
Now I'd be worried if i was the owner of NW stock
Sep 13, 2005, 6:18 pm
#50
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: DL Million Miler
Posts: 1,963
>>>>>agree! Welcome NWA and Delta!
Just as long as it doesn't mean I have to start flying "in arrears" of the aircraft!
Just as long as it doesn't mean I have to start flying "in arrears" of the aircraft!
Sep 13, 2005, 6:39 pm
#51
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AZO/DTW
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Posts: 256
A couple of points here:
1). NWA will try and file (if it can get the financing lined up and the New York Times online suggests this is probably going to happen) a prepackaged Chap. 11. In this case things will be as they are with UA and US Air.
2). The catch will be as follows: a). Long-term Chap.11 is very uncompetitive e.g., United and US Air (the latter for the second time in four years) have been under government sanctioned and protective "reorganization" for quite some time ....and this protection made it impossible, in the long-run, for NWA and Delta to compete. Anything short of prepackaged and planned Chapter 11 with a very short exit time, will run into problems.
3). There is overcapacity in the business: creditors that don't get on board with the deal that NWA is going to offer them ... in this sense the debtor has real power... may move for a Chapter 7, on the same principle that the AMFA walked out of talks earlier in the week i.e., "how long can you stay with dead horse"? On this view, liquidation may be the best option for some creditors (the pension plan folks especially).
4). In many respects Chap. 11 has become the route for a species of re-regulation of the business as a whole; hence, some of the remarks above are correct: all airlines will end up in some form of protection (save, perhaps Southwest, Jetblue etc.) but these smallish point-to-point airlines cannot keep the economy running in the fashion that the big airlines do [what is in the cargo hold of the large "legacy" airlines, to small towns all over the country, is primarily NOT our luggage].
I hope it works out, I have always had a relatively nice experince flying NWA and would like to keep doing so. And out here in Western Michigan, if we lose NWA it is going to get VERY expensive to fly!
Best, Andy
1). NWA will try and file (if it can get the financing lined up and the New York Times online suggests this is probably going to happen) a prepackaged Chap. 11. In this case things will be as they are with UA and US Air.
2). The catch will be as follows: a). Long-term Chap.11 is very uncompetitive e.g., United and US Air (the latter for the second time in four years) have been under government sanctioned and protective "reorganization" for quite some time ....and this protection made it impossible, in the long-run, for NWA and Delta to compete. Anything short of prepackaged and planned Chapter 11 with a very short exit time, will run into problems.
3). There is overcapacity in the business: creditors that don't get on board with the deal that NWA is going to offer them ... in this sense the debtor has real power... may move for a Chapter 7, on the same principle that the AMFA walked out of talks earlier in the week i.e., "how long can you stay with dead horse"? On this view, liquidation may be the best option for some creditors (the pension plan folks especially).
4). In many respects Chap. 11 has become the route for a species of re-regulation of the business as a whole; hence, some of the remarks above are correct: all airlines will end up in some form of protection (save, perhaps Southwest, Jetblue etc.) but these smallish point-to-point airlines cannot keep the economy running in the fashion that the big airlines do [what is in the cargo hold of the large "legacy" airlines, to small towns all over the country, is primarily NOT our luggage].
I hope it works out, I have always had a relatively nice experince flying NWA and would like to keep doing so. And out here in Western Michigan, if we lose NWA it is going to get VERY expensive to fly!
Best, Andy
Last edited by Himmelhund; Sep 13, 2005 at 8:16 pm
Sep 13, 2005, 6:55 pm
#52
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Madison, NJ
Programs: DL PM, Marriot Platinum
Posts: 2,560
Northwest Misses $42 million in Debt Payments - Bankruptcy Vote Wed Morning
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050914/...west_mechanics
Well, at least us DL flyers get a preview of what is going to happen at to us in a few weeks. Best of luck NW friends, we're with you. ^
Well, at least us DL flyers get a preview of what is going to happen at to us in a few weeks. Best of luck NW friends, we're with you. ^
Sep 13, 2005, 7:02 pm
#53
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
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If they have to file, it's better now than after Mid October
With the better terms for filing bankruptcy now, I think this is the best time to file.
The precedence has been made by NW's competitor, United and US airways' bankruptcy filing that its goals are fairly clear on what type of concessions NW and probably DL will need to emerge as a viable competitive company.
From the example set by United Airlines, I think NW will also default on pension payments, and seek similar arrangements.
I just hope that downsizing won't be a part of NW's bankruptcy plan.
Jiburi
The precedence has been made by NW's competitor, United and US airways' bankruptcy filing that its goals are fairly clear on what type of concessions NW and probably DL will need to emerge as a viable competitive company.
From the example set by United Airlines, I think NW will also default on pension payments, and seek similar arrangements.
I just hope that downsizing won't be a part of NW's bankruptcy plan.
Jiburi
Sep 13, 2005, 7:15 pm
#54
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Derrico
Also regarding AS and CO.. I am pretty sure that they both made a profit last quarter, but with fuel prices what they are, I guess one never knows.
Any bets on CO or AA going BK in the next year? I suppose it depends a lot on fuel prices (as always).
Sep 13, 2005, 7:16 pm
#55
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
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....and what's at stake?
Then on the other hand, does anyone know what, if any, assets are at stakes? In particular, I find the following items of value at Northwest.
1) NW/KLM Alliance
2) Flying rights to and beyond Japan (Is that Fifth Amendment Flying right)?
3) Agreements with Boeing for 787
4) Agreements with Airbus for current and future 333, 332, 320, 319, etc
5) Hubs at DTW, MSP, MEM, NRT, AMS
6) Operation at IND, SEA, HNL, LAX, SFO, LGA, JFK etc....
7) Veto rights associated with NW/CO Alliance
8) Little of Fuel Hedge they have going....
9) Retirements of aircrafts.....D10, 747 and DC9s??
There are probably more, but those are what I can think of....
Jiburi
1) NW/KLM Alliance
2) Flying rights to and beyond Japan (Is that Fifth Amendment Flying right)?
3) Agreements with Boeing for 787
4) Agreements with Airbus for current and future 333, 332, 320, 319, etc
5) Hubs at DTW, MSP, MEM, NRT, AMS
6) Operation at IND, SEA, HNL, LAX, SFO, LGA, JFK etc....
7) Veto rights associated with NW/CO Alliance
8) Little of Fuel Hedge they have going....
9) Retirements of aircrafts.....D10, 747 and DC9s??
There are probably more, but those are what I can think of....
Jiburi
Sep 13, 2005, 7:18 pm
#56
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DCA
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The DC9s have got to go.
Sep 13, 2005, 7:22 pm
#57
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HYX
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At The Bell:
Heck, everybody lost their shorts today:
HOT .. 59.20 -0.30 (0.50%) - 786,300
AVL .. 34.05 -1.06 (3.02%) - 294,900
CAL .. 12.60 -0.48 (3.67%) - 4,580,900
DAL .... 0.78 -0.07 (8.24%) - 33,210,200
PNCL .. 8.29 -1.39 (14.36%) - 850,038
NWAC . 1.57 -1.74 (52.57%) - 98,083,693
Should probably be more concerned about DAL getting delisted.
/.
Heck, everybody lost their shorts today:
HOT .. 59.20 -0.30 (0.50%) - 786,300
AVL .. 34.05 -1.06 (3.02%) - 294,900
CAL .. 12.60 -0.48 (3.67%) - 4,580,900
DAL .... 0.78 -0.07 (8.24%) - 33,210,200
PNCL .. 8.29 -1.39 (14.36%) - 850,038
NWAC . 1.57 -1.74 (52.57%) - 98,083,693
Should probably be more concerned about DAL getting delisted.
/.
Sep 13, 2005, 7:27 pm
#58
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Anywhere but home
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Posts: 4,553
Originally Posted by rdg_dc
The DC9s have got to go.
Sep 13, 2005, 7:29 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: buffalo,ny
Posts: 14
Award ticket concerns
A few weeks ago I bought a Award ticket for the xmas holiday, what do you think are the chances that I will still be able to use that ticket?
I am just worried that my ticket will be canceled as soon as NWA files
Chap 11.
Any thoughts???
I am just worried that my ticket will be canceled as soon as NWA files
Chap 11.
Any thoughts???
Sep 13, 2005, 7:33 pm
#60
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG PLAT, NWA Plat
Posts: 645
You should be able to use it but maybe not the current flights.