TOPIC: Strike as a General Issue >> Your Thoughts
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:20 pm
#511
Join Date: Aug 2004
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LTRS, I work in the IT field and have seen jobs outsourced, have seen my friends lose jobs because of the economy, seen friends lose jobs just because the company went belly up. In fact, my own colleagues were laid off because of the economy. So what do I do? Stick to my guns and ask my company to guarantee a contract? Guarantee me my salary when the company has lost money and will do so for the foreseeable future?
I'm well aware that I am expendable, as are 95% other employees. I can either opt for a change in career or look for another job. But I WILL do my best to help my employer survive this downturn, for it benefits both the employees and the employer.
The union's stance can be accurately described as (with due apologies to FTers who've patented this line
)
(a): Hold gun to own head
(b): Pull trigger
Not a reason for management to negotiate, when they know these guys won't be around for too long after the walkout.
As for your commentary on Walmart and Sam's Club and the Big 3, I admire your determination. I'm not a big fan or Walmart myself and haven't shopped there in a while, but the similarities between the management at Walmart (making money) and NW (losing money) are tenuous, at best.
I'm well aware that I am expendable, as are 95% other employees. I can either opt for a change in career or look for another job. But I WILL do my best to help my employer survive this downturn, for it benefits both the employees and the employer.
The union's stance can be accurately described as (with due apologies to FTers who've patented this line
)(a): Hold gun to own head
(b): Pull trigger
Not a reason for management to negotiate, when they know these guys won't be around for too long after the walkout.
As for your commentary on Walmart and Sam's Club and the Big 3, I admire your determination. I'm not a big fan or Walmart myself and haven't shopped there in a while, but the similarities between the management at Walmart (making money) and NW (losing money) are tenuous, at best.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:21 pm
#512
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Programs: Delta Airlines, Sun Country Airlines
Posts: 1,602
Yes
Originally Posted by DHAST
Gee Alan, that sentence is loaded with as much fine print as the availability of a standard 25k domestic award, and you think that's a deal?
-Alan
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:22 pm
#513
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA-1K-MM AA-EXP-MM
Posts: 726
Originally Posted by LTRS
Look, it's a free country. You are free to support the driving down of US worker wages if you like.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:24 pm
#514
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Programs: Delta Airlines, Sun Country Airlines
Posts: 1,602
Fall Schedule Conversion
Originally Posted by dg4255
2 flts to/from Denver have already cxld or been delayed due to "irregular ops" or "unscheduled maintenance"... Here is a copy and paste from WorldSpan...
-Alan
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:27 pm
#515
Suspended
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Posts: 6,531
Originally Posted by VideoPaul
As a licensed, current pilot myself (just not with the first class medical like yours) I have to smirk and agree that indeed, the pilots are the brightest of the bunch!
NWA: Action approved as requested, continue inbound!
--Paul
NWA: Action approved as requested, continue inbound!
--Paul
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:29 pm
#516
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: ORF
Programs: NW Plat, UA PE, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Silver, Hertz PC, Delta Platinum Medalion.
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by travelerjim
Bye-Bye LTRS....And......be sure to check the overhead compartment above your seat for all your personal belongings .....and don't forget your coat on the way out!
Good Luck on that other airline...if it's still flying too!
TravelerJim
When I heard the union spokesman say that the mechanics would rather see NWA in bankruptcy than negotiate, any (VERY little) sympathy I had for their argument was gone. I wish them well at their next job...
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:31 pm
#517
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP, HHonors
Posts: 642
Originally Posted by bnrdad
CEO's , CFO's, pilots and and mechanics make the same thing = market wages. Most of them get paid the same as another guy at the same size of company in the same industry - generally speaking.
And as long as the American consumer sides with management that does this it will continue to go on. Eventually this "I don't give a crap about my fellow worker" mentality will hit YOU in the pocketbook.
I bid this thread goodbye along with my flights on NWA. I am going to spend a wonderful day with my son -- play a few video games with him, go out to lunch together, and take in a movie. Then he (he says) is going to cook dinner -- quite a feat for a 13 yr old. I hope all of you have as nice a day!
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:35 pm
#518
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP, HHonors
Posts: 642
Originally Posted by ORD4R
I do support driving down wages when they are above market value.
Somehow I doubt you will.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:36 pm
#519
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Originally Posted by Poopdeck90210
-- better yet -- to fly ATA (formerly value jet). Not a pretty picture... capiche?
-Alan
-Alan
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:39 pm
#520
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Originally Posted by LTRS
You miss the point -- CEOs and CFOs have made an obscene cottage industry of screwing their workers while enriching themselves beyond all reasonable measure.
If it wasn't you, sorry, with so many strike threads, it's hard to remember.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:41 pm
#521
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Programs: NW Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 416
LTRS, I'm surprised you're not out walking a picket line in sympathy.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:42 pm
#522
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Originally Posted by LTRS
Well, run, don't walk, to your bosses office on Monday and tell him you demand a huge decrease in your salary and benefits then.
Somehow I doubt you will.
Somehow I doubt you will.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:44 pm
#523
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Posts: 171
Originally Posted by LTRS
Methinks yours makes you blind:
Work & Life: Executives insulated from NWA pension fears
H.J. Cummins, Star Tribune
August 11, 2005 WORKANDLIFE0811
Page: 1 2
One person who doesn't have to worry about the future of his Northwest Airlines pension is former CEO Richard Anderson.
When Anderson left the company last year, he took his pension with him in the form of a check for $3,028,700.
Such lump-sum payments are not available to Northwest mechanics, pilots or other union workers at the airline, who receive one pension from the company.
Anderson's check covered three separate pensions that he received from Northwest: the regular pension plan, his excess pension plan and his supplemental executive retirement plan, or SERP as they're known in the business world.
This is not to pick on Anderson. Top executives at Northwest still have these three pensions, including new CEO Doug Steenland.
This is not even to pick on Northwest. Executive pensions this size are standard across U.S. corporations.
But Northwest's retirement plans, and how they fit into its cost-savings efforts, is a central fairness issue to the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which is heading toward an Aug. 19 strike deadline. Northwest wants to slash worker compensation by $1.1 billion a year and replace traditional pension plans -- which pay a set amount each month -- with a plan that includes a 401(k) match.
Northwest's pension plans for all union and nonunion workers are underfunded by about $3.8 billion. It has warned that it may have to file for bankruptcy protection unless it gets help from both Congress and its unions.
401(k)s replace some pensions
The situation is fluid. At the end of this month, for example, the pensions of salaried workers will be frozen and replaced with 401(k)s. That's what management wants its unions to accept, too, and some have indicated a willingness to negotiate that possibility.
Union workers at Northwest have a pension based on years of service. For AMFA members -- mechanics, custodians and cleaners -- that amounts to $85 a month for every year they work, Local 33 President Ted Ludwig said. A mechanic who retires at 65, after 40 years at Northwest, will collect about $40,000 a year.
Northwest's salaried -- nonunion -- employees have been covered by a regular pension plan that pays them 60 percent of their top 60 consecutive months of work, though the maximum salary for the purposes of calculating a pension is set by the federal government. Last year it was $205,000, or less than half of Steenland's 2004 salary.
Northwest's excess pension plan exists to cover salaries above that $205,000 federal limit. Steenland and three other executives are covered by the excess plan, the company explained in its 2005 proxy statement.
The supplemental plan, or SERP, adds multipliers to boost the pensions for four top executives, the proxy says.
For example, it credits Steenland with 15 years of service for every five he works. It also pays him pension credits at twice the rate applied to regular salaried workers.
The proxy estimates that Steenland's combined pensions, if he retires at 65, will be $947,417 a year.
Northwest declined to say Wednesday whether the additional pension plans for Steenland and other executives will be subject to the freeze that will be imposed on the plans of salaried workers.
Work & Life: Executives insulated from NWA pension fears
H.J. Cummins, Star Tribune
August 11, 2005 WORKANDLIFE0811
Page: 1 2
One person who doesn't have to worry about the future of his Northwest Airlines pension is former CEO Richard Anderson.
When Anderson left the company last year, he took his pension with him in the form of a check for $3,028,700.
Such lump-sum payments are not available to Northwest mechanics, pilots or other union workers at the airline, who receive one pension from the company.
Anderson's check covered three separate pensions that he received from Northwest: the regular pension plan, his excess pension plan and his supplemental executive retirement plan, or SERP as they're known in the business world.
This is not to pick on Anderson. Top executives at Northwest still have these three pensions, including new CEO Doug Steenland.
This is not even to pick on Northwest. Executive pensions this size are standard across U.S. corporations.
But Northwest's retirement plans, and how they fit into its cost-savings efforts, is a central fairness issue to the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which is heading toward an Aug. 19 strike deadline. Northwest wants to slash worker compensation by $1.1 billion a year and replace traditional pension plans -- which pay a set amount each month -- with a plan that includes a 401(k) match.
Northwest's pension plans for all union and nonunion workers are underfunded by about $3.8 billion. It has warned that it may have to file for bankruptcy protection unless it gets help from both Congress and its unions.
401(k)s replace some pensions
The situation is fluid. At the end of this month, for example, the pensions of salaried workers will be frozen and replaced with 401(k)s. That's what management wants its unions to accept, too, and some have indicated a willingness to negotiate that possibility.
Union workers at Northwest have a pension based on years of service. For AMFA members -- mechanics, custodians and cleaners -- that amounts to $85 a month for every year they work, Local 33 President Ted Ludwig said. A mechanic who retires at 65, after 40 years at Northwest, will collect about $40,000 a year.
Northwest's salaried -- nonunion -- employees have been covered by a regular pension plan that pays them 60 percent of their top 60 consecutive months of work, though the maximum salary for the purposes of calculating a pension is set by the federal government. Last year it was $205,000, or less than half of Steenland's 2004 salary.
Northwest's excess pension plan exists to cover salaries above that $205,000 federal limit. Steenland and three other executives are covered by the excess plan, the company explained in its 2005 proxy statement.
The supplemental plan, or SERP, adds multipliers to boost the pensions for four top executives, the proxy says.
For example, it credits Steenland with 15 years of service for every five he works. It also pays him pension credits at twice the rate applied to regular salaried workers.
The proxy estimates that Steenland's combined pensions, if he retires at 65, will be $947,417 a year.
Northwest declined to say Wednesday whether the additional pension plans for Steenland and other executives will be subject to the freeze that will be imposed on the plans of salaried workers.
So now it Anderson's fault he went to school and got a good education and worked hard and got ahead? Your argument sounds like every person is exactly the same whether they are a mechanic or a CEO. That is crap. I would no more want Anderson to fix my car any more than a mechanic with a High Scool education run a multi-billion dollar company.
Your thinking reminds me of system that collasped in 1989 and rightfully so. The market will determine the success or failure of this strike. I think Reagan had the right idea back in 1981. Fire the *******s.
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:47 pm
#524
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Originally Posted by PIT_Flyer
Waaaaayy OT (and sorry), but what banishment for posting links? I thought the rule was NOT TO POST the entire article but an excerpt and a link 
Aug 20, 2005 | 12:47 pm
#525
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Posts: 5,485
Is LTRS the same LTRS who posted the following on 7/30/05?
1. "I am silver elite, mostly from crediting Alaska Airlines miles to NWA, so haven't actually flown them much. "
2. "Last week I did SEA-MEM-GNV and the plane had mechanical problems that made me miss my connection and as a result I had a 6 hr wait in the airport for the next flight to MEM-GNV."
3. "Ticked me off because it was the first flight of the day for NWA out of SEA that morning. Plane had spent the night in the hanger. Shouldn't they have used all those hours to check the plane? Now I know mechanical problems happen, but during my 6 hr delay in Memphis I talked to at least 3 other people who were also stuck there because of mechanical problems with other flights that day. Now I see a poster saying his Mom is stuck tonight on a mechanical delay.
I was thinking of flying NWA more but do they always have these kind of problems with their planes? "
4. "Yeah, I got the email about the possible strike and saw others commenting on that here, but YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! What in the world do the mechanics think they have to gain by making the airline go broke? That's the stupiest labor tactic I have ever heard of!"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457592
1. "I am silver elite, mostly from crediting Alaska Airlines miles to NWA, so haven't actually flown them much. "
2. "Last week I did SEA-MEM-GNV and the plane had mechanical problems that made me miss my connection and as a result I had a 6 hr wait in the airport for the next flight to MEM-GNV."
3. "Ticked me off because it was the first flight of the day for NWA out of SEA that morning. Plane had spent the night in the hanger. Shouldn't they have used all those hours to check the plane? Now I know mechanical problems happen, but during my 6 hr delay in Memphis I talked to at least 3 other people who were also stuck there because of mechanical problems with other flights that day. Now I see a poster saying his Mom is stuck tonight on a mechanical delay.
I was thinking of flying NWA more but do they always have these kind of problems with their planes? "
4. "Yeah, I got the email about the possible strike and saw others commenting on that here, but YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! What in the world do the mechanics think they have to gain by making the airline go broke? That's the stupiest labor tactic I have ever heard of!"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457592