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Originally Posted by mjcasta
Reagrdless of your position on the strike . . .
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . . What would you do?? a. Your job asks your office of 100 people to vote on eliminating the positions of half your co-workers. Keep in mind that your office used to have 200 workers and half have already been eliminated . . . . b. You are comfortable that you may survive the purge; but, will need to expect a paycheck which is 30% less than it was last week. c. You will now need to make a 60% larger contribution to your insurance policies which further reduces your net pay. d. Keep in mind that you have over 20 years of service to your company for this part . . . Your traditional pension will be eliminated and you will now be placed into a defined pension and/or 401K program. The average loss of value is around 40% and you will now need to contribute at least 15% of your pay to the 401K as retirement is around the corner. e. You will now need to further commmute to work as stations and positions will be eliminated through base closing and consolidation. At what point does relocating your family or becoming a stranger to your kids become just not worth it. When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%. Sooooo, what would you do???? I would vote to keep my job at whatever cost... go back to school... and then quit and enter a new career field: like thousands of hard-working Americans do, every day. |
Originally Posted by LTRS
Yes, I definitely AM depriving NW of revenue, and very deliberately. As we are constantly reminded, we have choices when we fly, and I'll not spend my dollars with a company who expects their workers to give up pensions, insurance, and accept huge pay cuts to make up for executive mismanagement.
You have people making $7 hr getting healthcae and others making $20 and not- then the those people making $20 complain- well then- go take that $7 an hour job. |
Originally Posted by yogimax
Please explain how an average daily loss of $4,000,000 is "corporate greed."
Just a thought :D |
Originally Posted by socrates
I know....gosh darn SWA et al...how dare they not play by the union/legacy carrier's rule book....LRTS you should refuse to fly them too....on second thought...the auto industry is doing the same thing the air industry is doing...you better walk instead
Granted, it's not easy to spend all your dollars consistently with your principles, but I sure as heck try. |
Originally Posted by LTRS
Yes, I definitely AM depriving NW of revenue, and very deliberately. As we are constantly reminded, we have choices when we fly, and I'll not spend my dollars with a company who expects their workers to give up pensions, insurance, and accept huge pay cuts to make up for executive mismanagement.
Welcome to the reality of the today's world. Fat pensions and perks are going the way of the dodo. As far as I am concerned, as long as management employees tighten it's belts along with unions to prevent hypocrisy and everyone takes a hit; NW actions are fine by me. - HF |
Wages
Originally Posted by exymer
From the Detroit Free Press:
The average salary of a mechanic is $70,000; the salary for an aircraft cleaner is about $42,900. Assuming a 40 hour work week, which I admit may not be accurate, thats an AVERAGE of $21 and hour for all the cleaners. So please try to be a little accurate in your wage quotes. Wages I quoted are right from the AMFA / NWA Contract Book. |
Originally Posted by Unicorn123
I am still trying to find out where it was determined that health care and employment go hand and hand. There are millions of self employed people in the US who do not get health care as a right of employment. Where did this rule come into place that an employer must provide healthcare? I just don't get it.
You have people making $7 hr getting healthcae and others making $20 and not- then the those people making $20 complain- well then- go take that $7 an hour job. If, as a country, we would stop voting for republicans who like the idea of redistributing all the wealth in this country to a few people, self employed people would be able to buy health insurance for a reasonable cost because legislation would allow them to join group benefit plans for small businesses and self employed individuals. That legislation has been held up from even getting a hearing for over 7 yrs. Why? Because the insurance companies like it the way it is, and they line the pockets of the republican campaign coffers to keep it that way. |
Originally Posted by HobokenFlyer
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Welcome to the reality of the today's world. Fat pensions and perks are going the way of the dodo. - HF |
Just booked on NWA for Monday
I've never flown NW before -- I do 90% of my flying on US -- but I've just booked a flight from CHO to ORD for Monday, despite a higher ticket price and inconvenient connections, to show my support to this management team.
It still amazes me how the big labor bosses cling to principles and tactics that were successful in 1985 while jobs flow to Southeast Asia, Mexico and India. Of course, when all of the jobs are gone and the pensions have been slashed, the union presidents are sitting fat and happy on a beach somewhere thanks to all of the dues they've extorted from the "rank and file" over the years. |
Originally Posted by LTRS
I don't belong to any union. I own a business that realizes that the people who work for it are our greatest asset and deserve to be treated well, for their sakes AND the sake of the business.
As any student of history knows, if it weren't for unions the standard of living in this country would not be anywhere near what it is. We'd all still be working for slave wages like in the days of the robber barons. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't very good students of history and forget that. Either that, or they have a "well I got mine, too bad for you" mentality. :) I agree that unions were necessary and they corrected a lot of wrongs. However, that was a LONG time ago. The problem with any organization formed to tackle a problem doesn't know what to do with themselves after they have FIXED the problem. Unions have fixed the injustices of the past decades ago. Now they are more interested in lining their pockets and keeping themselves afloat at the expense of American businesses and even some of th workers they represent. In my opinion, some unions are just as bad as the robber barons of old. Today's unions are going to have to wake up because NWA will just go Chapter 11 and then bust the unions contract that way or de-authorize the union completely. Trust me, the union higher ups are testing the waters and the poor NWA mechanics are the bait and they are going to get slaughtered. - HF |
Originally Posted by LTRS
I don't fly SWA. I stopped flying AA until they got rid of management that took pay increases from the govt handouts to airlines after 9/11. I don't shop at Walmart or Sam's Club. Target and Costco treat their employees better. And I try to drive cars from company's that are made in the USA and offer their workers decent benefits and pay. Right now I drive an Acura.
Granted, it's not easy to spend all your dollars consistently with your principles, but I sure as heck try. Wow, I think it is time to recommend you for a medal or have a statue made of you. I think you desirve that. Casey. |
Originally Posted by ATP Pilot
GO NWA!!
I'm booking all of my travel on NWA in support of the way they're handling this situation. As you can already see ALPA knows better than to get into this - pilots are the brightest of the bunch. :D |
Originally Posted by yogimax
Sure there was a choice! The union could have accepted NW's offer or bargained with the understanding that NW is losing $4million/day and drastic remedies were needed! Would it be fair? Would it in the best interest of my family? Would it mean, as a mechanic with seniority, that my job and benefits would continue, albeit at a lower level? All these questions, as well as others, needed to be evaluated and a decision made.
Yes, absolutely, there was a choice. Unfortunately, the wrong choice was made by the union! Choice is for each respective member . . . Keep in mind, the union was asked to either fire you or your co-worker. Even Russian Roulette has better odds with 7 bullets in the chamber! How would you feel if you knew that when you look at the senioity list, it was your job they were targeting?? NWA is asking for 50% staff reduction, almost every poster is saying "take the wage cut" or "suck it up" not many are viewing it if they were the cut. If NWA is losing $4 million a day, do you realize that the asked for savings by mechanics of $176 million only represents 44 days. NWA would save this much and more by declaring BK and petitioning the court to void leases at facilities which have been closed or consolidated. Right or Wrong . . . Merits or Not, the issues are deeper and far more profound. Next up, flight attendants and customer service / ramp personnel. |
Originally Posted by socrates
Management DID take a cut, at the same time the pilots did
So how many times greater is your salary than your lowest paid employee? And maybe my math is off, but how does a $2 million dollar raise translate into a management pay cut? |
Originally Posted by H2O_Goalie
IMO, the rule of the new economy is:
You can be replaced*. At a high level meeting, the CEO was being unduly harsh on Director of Marketing. DofM was a key employee and headed a vast department doing a major push on a groundbreaking new product. CEO pushed DofM..DofM pushed back once too often... CEO said "do you want to remain employed here?" DofM said "you need me." CEO said to DofM.."Go out and find a bucket and fill it with water and bring it back in here". DofM just sat there CEO again said to DofM.."Go out and find a bucket and fill it with water and bring it back in here." DofM still sat and glaired at CEO CEO said to do it or he would fire him on the spot. We all sat with mouths hanging open...almost not breathing. DofM slinked out and returned in a few minutes with a bucket full of water. CEO said "now stick your fist into the bucket" DofM did CEO said now pull it out DofM did CEO said, "now look at the hole in the water left by your hand. That's how much we need you if you dont do what I say" CEO said everyone is replaceable from lowest paid to highest paid employees. Harsh lesson learned!!! |
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