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Yikes! It's here!!

Perhaps I'm jaded, but I spent six years living in Washington, DC and the outlying suburubs before I lived in LA. Since perception is reality, all I've seen since my 19th birthday is astronomical real estate prices and costs of living. I've also worked for the airlines for a couple of years and still work in aviation to this day. I'll probably retire in this industry in some way shape or form. What that means is that I'm a little more sensitive to labor issues in this industry. Oh, just so we're clear: I have never had union representation. One other thing... when I finally start my career job, there's only 20 places in the country that I stand a reasonable chance of getting assigned, and those are in some of the highest costs of living areas in the country, because, by nature of the job, they are located in some of the largest cities.

I guess we're discussing whether or not mechanics were voting down a "good" contract or a "bad" contract. Or maybe not. Either way, I am categorically against using any sort of broad average examples (really, anything larger a county average) when discussing anything to do with wages. Why? It's just too broad, and the concentration of airline workers are in large cities, where your cost of living is greater than the cost of living in smaller towns. If we were discussing the cost of living in the counties surrounding NW's hub airports, then maybe we could get a better grip and have a more meaningful discussion about salaries vs. cost of living.
I look at is as a quality of life issue. Dual wage earner households are making it more difficult for single wage earner households to make a decent living and have a decent quality of life. Not to mention having to put the kids in day care all day because mom "has" to work.
Again, statewide averages are too broad to have any real meaningful discussion. Look at the average household income in Minneapolis/St. Paul and the surrounding areas vs. the avereage household income in the rest of the state. I'll bet you that there's a significant difference. Likewise, look at the average annual income of Wayne County, MI and the surrounding counties vs. the rest of MI. Again, I'm sure you'll see a large disparity. Northern MN and the U.P. of MI are not exactly expensive places to live in, and likwise, the average incomes are lower. NW doesn't have too many mechanics in Hibbing/Chisolm MN nor Marquette, MI. They have lots in Minneapolis and Detroit.
I think you're being way to general again. The BS college co-ops, internships, and beer-money jobs aside, I have never had a job that did not have those benefits, and I have never belonged to a union. I have also never even looked at a job that did not have those benefits. I can't tell where those stastics came from or what they encompass, but you have to realize that certain economies (farming, tourism among others) are typically not union nor do they provide benefits. Again, any job I've looked at within a large corporation, without union representation, provides those benefits. My point is, throwing around the word "union" is just too general. In aviation, if you want to compare union jobs vs. non union jobs, I suspect you will find the benefit packages to be very similar.
I'm not sure where you got that 1 in 12 figure, but again, I think we're being too general. I do agree with you that unions are out of touch with reality (hey, at least the pilots and flight attendants aren't on a sympathy strike, so they have some clue) but in this case, I don't think AMFA cut their nose to spit their face. What were they supposed to do, sign a contract eliminating 53% of their jobs and giving significant paycuts to those left over? Making what I make, if I ever had to voluntarily give up one dime, I wouldn't do it willingly or without a fight.

Alan,

It is standard practice for airline mechanics to have their own tools. You should have seen it after 9/11 when they shut off all of the security-free employee access points where you could come and go at will with your tools and then forced you to use the security check point. Your tool, necessary for your job, is now a prohibited weapon at the airport.

What the??? And -- Nice Severance Package
 

Okay... this is just rich (excerpt from a NW Strike article on the Star Tribune website):

Northwest flight attendants voted not to honor the strike, but the union said it would fight on behalf of any individuals who did not cross the AMFA picket lines.

I think this statement by the FA union is a load of crap. Let me demonstrate by applying the same logic to my conduct when I fly NW: I, Poopdeck90210, do hearby proclaim that the next flight I fly in coach, I promise not to cross the line into FC to use the FC bathrooom, stand in line in front of the cockpit door to wait for the bathroom to free up, and to not put my carry on luggage in the FC overhead. But I will fight and argue with NW crew members in case I decide to do some or all of these things anyway. :rolleyes: :confused:

Bill Mellon, a Northwest spokesman, said the offer included job protections for 80 percent of the mechanics on the payroll and up to a maximum of 26 weeks of severance payments for laid-off workers

Wow! This severance offering is as good as management normally gets in corporate america. :) ^

-Alan

Actually, I have no problem with the mechanics making this kind of money. The number of mechanics needed is another issue. HOWEVER, we seem to be forgetting that the union also encompasses the cleaners and custodians, who are receiving ridiculous wages for their skill level. As a matter of fact, I believe NW's last offer to the union was to eliminate all the cleaning and custodial positions. Unfortuately, the union is all about self-preservation for itself and its well paid executive officers.

Flawed Logic
 

And NW management can utilize the same tactics dismiss the same workers who are doing these copious write ups and replace them with workers who have less seniority.

-Alan

1500, +300 management, DOES buy NW enough time to work with its vendors to source even more additional replacement mechanics who will be taking over the mechanics work going forward.

-Alan

World Has Changed Around NW Mechanics
 

Don't forget union greed, as NW Mechanics have been the highest paid since 2001. It seems to me that NW mechanics are a bit naive about the world around them. It has changed.

-Alan

Making Up New Rules, What Fun!
 

So can I apply your logic the next time I fly NW and don't get upgraded to FC? I will just commandeer a FC seat for myself, keep my seatback reclined during take-off and during the landing, and use my wireless phone during the entire flight. What the heck, I think I'll even help myself to a few extra drinks from the FC drink cart -- why wait for the FA to offer it to me? Summary -- there are no repricussions at NW for not following the rules, right?

:rolleyes:

-Alan

It is good to see that some of the NW employees would like to keep their jobs and still have a company to work for.

Thank you for voting NO and for flying. It appears that the FA's are a bit smarter and/or have a better leader than the mechanics.

That is very good news. From the various reports it seems that the the AMFA is not a very well thought of Union as far as other unions are concerned. I have sympathy for the mechanics, but they brought any (financial) trouble they may encounter because of a strike on themselves and I believe it is wise for the other unions not to follow along like Lemings to their death.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the early cancelations are a result of the mechanics being off the job. I think they are a result of before the mechanics left the job they took the planes out of service and they can not get back into service until a mechanic (ie.the replacements) get in and fix and/or authorize the plane to fly again.

I don't know all the legaleze about aircraft maintenance, but it seems like a large percentage of planes have been "down for maintenance" since the cooling off period begun. So, technically they are a result of the strike, or at least the build up to it. But not a direct result of the mechanics walking off the job. I think it was more of a "Lets see how much damage we can do before we leave" type of thing.

Please explain how an average daily loss of $4,000,000 is "corporate greed."

While there may be cases of this happening, from the news reports I have read, I don't think this is accurate IMHO. There were many people who reported for work yesterday afternoon/night and when they got there NW sent them home and paid them for their full shift. Others who were working were escorted off the property early and some people in the hangars spent their shift in a room with a guard instead of working on aircraft.

I don't think NW's plan is working out as great as they thought it would but if the majority thinks like the above poster I will give them points for winning the PR game.