GUWonder

The daycare staff must just be loving that their summer vacations too will sort of be casualties to the healthcare workers not going on vacation with the herd. They and the healthcare workers must really love the idea that their kids end up in different than usual daycare environments and get to mix with a new bunch of kids and staff and the other associated adults this summer.

Fredrik74

Yeah, we shall see what happens once the people in charge realise that if they do cancel vacations it proves that things have gone out of hand and like you say it will have repercussions for other people too.

WilcoRoger

Define success - in yesterday's news we heard that a quarter of Finns have big issues paying for rent/mortgage, a huge jump since earlier. The economy is going down the drain, taking more casualties than a Swedish style handling of covid ever would. Delayed medical care for other issues, mental health, declining physical and mental health of the locked up elderly (the ones this is supposed to protect), increased home violence - you name it. And we haven't even touched the issue of unemployment, private and public debts, etc.

Add to that that the total casualities will probably the same no matter what, the question arises - was it worth it?

GUWonder

There is no universal definition of success that all would accept. But that people may increasingly say that the restrictions (or duration of the restrictions) have been overkill could in parts be taken by some as a sign of success since the more effective the mitigation efforts the more unnecessary the measures would seem to be to more and more people. The lower the mortality rates in a short period of time and the weaker the intensity of the mortality hits, the more unnecessary and excessive the mitigation efforts would look .... and the sooner things head back toward usual than may have otherwise been the case.

Everyone dies eventually of something. But things being done to save and extend living years do cost; and lifesaving measures are part and parcel of civilization and living in civilized societies rather than in a more Hobbesian state of nature. Lifesaving includes people living longer than would otherwise be the case without lifesaving measures.

The notion that the economy would be normal and strong if there were no restrictions is a fantasy in these parts. Even in Sweden where most restrictions are nothing more than recommendations, the economy has been struggling and the big, longer term economic prices being paid will be able to be better compared across countries and approaches a year or two from now than today.

nacho

Another school teacher died of Covid-19 in Sweden

GUWonder

“..... but but but the teacher may have gotten it from people who aren’t kids”.

All while it takes an ostrich-like, head-in-the-sand mentality to think that kids can’t and don’t spread this virus and risk killing people with it; and much the same can be said about the idea that teachers don’t also spread this virus.

The teachers must really love the fact that even parents with confirmed virus infection can still send their kids to daycares and schools while the parents are having respiratory-related trouble at home. And then some may wonder why schools have some people checking out kids noses and making calls to tell parents that their kids aren’t welcome to school for two days. And then what happens to those parents and their jobs? They can’t go into even their “essential” workplaces if the perceived sick kids aren’t welcomed. And all this at a time when allergy season may be picking up.

The idea that Sweden’s approach to the virus situation isn’t causing employment-related and other economic havoc is a non-starter.

Here’s CNN’s take comparing Sweden to its neighbors:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/28/e...ntl/index.html

WilcoRoger

This is a major question that has been not addressed by any government - the cost of each saved lifeyear. There is an actual measurement for this, cost/QALY, quality adjusted life year. Up until now, it seems to have no upper limit to that for Covid19 whereas ALL other ailments/illness/medical procedures have it - maybe not talked about much publicly, but it’s there.

What comes to the economy - with most of service economy still working the hit is so much smaller in Sweden than in he neighboring countries, where most of the service economy is simply shut down.

GUWonder

The hit so far to the Swedish economy is less in ways than for its neighbors. But this virus situation isn’t over yet for any of the Nordic countries.

I do have concerns that the economic hits from these measures can cause long-term economic problems and even negatively impact longer-term health and lifespans that way too. But I would have concerns about that dynamic also in the absence of these virus risk mitigation measures.

The countries with the relatively better housing market performance over the next year or two may end up being a good indicator of which countries have done relatively better to reduce the long-term damage of some sorts and have a relatively better healthcare system capacity and public health standard in the years and decades ahead.

GUWonder

Deaths in Sweden for this virus are now at 2462, an increase of 107 from yesterday’s number.

Swedish sports clubs are increasingly furloughing staff because their revenues are drying up.

CPH-Flyer

And went past 20K confirmed cases. But all is well, and the "strategy" is working exactly as planned.

RedChili

Finally, you're getting it! The strategy of flattening the curve, to avoid overwhelming the hospitals, is working perfectly. As opposed to some other European countries which have either been overwhelmed or underwhelmed.

CPH-Flyer

Compared to Italy yes the curve of fatalities has been flattened, but compared to the US the curve of fatalities is still out of control.

But maybe the best strategy is indeed to manage randomly and claim success whatever happens. It gives fewer headaches for sure. The interviews with Anders Tegnell on Danish television did not exactly inspire my confidence in his ability.

GUWonder

There are parts of Sweden than have less than 3 ICU beds available, but Tegnell and others aware of these details don’t want the details about that lack of spare capacity getting out there specifying where there is almost no spare ICU bed capacity and where there is no spare ICU capacity. Things have been working so perfectly in Sweden that the Swedish love for transparency doesn’t work for Tegnell and company.

Fredrik74

Yeah, Sweden is always right.

nacho

I think sports clubs suffer because the weather is nice outside - so people can run and exercise outside.