Actually, it demonstrates the difference money makes.

All passengers on the Concorder are First Class. There are no coach passengers. That's why the treatment is soooo much more generous.

Let's repeat... money talks.

flyrights. I am now also wondering if you just do not get it. You asked this question above correct? My answer covered your question. Totally IRRESPECTIVE of their status or method of obtaining the ticket, all pax were treated by BA the same.


------------------
~ Glen ~

Like the title of this thread, I think you're being misleading here.

In your situation, full-fare pax weren't bumping off discount economy pax, they were apparently just given priority for the few remaining seats on a different flight. That's not the same as full-fare pax walking onboard a plane and demanding that discount economy pax get off, which is what you're suggesting with your language.

You didn't get bumped, there was never a seat available for you. There's a big difference.

Again, I think it's unrealistic to determine a pecking order ahead of time that will work in every situation. The informal method, based loosely on elite status, fare paid and first-come-first-served seems to work well because it's completely flexible.

Check-in times are completely unfair; auctions - you already said it's unfair for rich people with their rich tickets to trump the poor with discount tickets, so an auction would have the same result.

d

Doppy, full fare passengers have, in effect, been demanding economy and/or award passengers give up their seats for them... they just don't do the dirty work themselves, they have convinced the airline that they are valuable to the airline, and the airline does the nasty dirty work of treating people unfairly... You say the present system of "informal" pecking orders "works well"... maybe it "works well"...FOR YOU, since you may be in the elite status the airline supposed wants to cater to. The vast majority of passengers, economy types, who do NOT frequent this discussion board in great numbers, I'm am rather certain would say that this pecking order DOES NOT "work well" for them... but perhaps you, like the others on this board, don't pay attention to all the little people out there who pay the bills. My hunch is that you have convinced yourself that the airline can't make money without you...and yes, as someone else said, "money talks"...I agree with that, but it SHOULDN'T buy more "RIGHTS" than those without money. Right? I supposed your reply might be something like, "it shouldn't, but it does", so I'll speculate in advance that we're in agreement.

And Ozstamps, when BA gave everyone on the Concorde the same treatment, they were all in the same "class", right? It's a bit easier to take care of say 70 rich people all in the same class, than say five hundred 747 passengers, in different classes, etc. The London/Singapore referred to that...TOTALLY different situations... you are comparing apples and oranges... Either that, or I don't get your point...
JIm

flyrights is getting loopier and loopier by the post. Based on this logic, I'm guessing you also think that the airline is engaged in criminally fraudulent behaviour because they did not also inform you that your ticket does not include either a Porsche Boxster or a Saturn V rocket, or dental floss.

Do you receive a comprehensive list of goods, services and benefits not included every time you enter into some transaction? If not, are they all fraudulent?


It's becoming obvious that it would be a whole lot easier taking care of 70 rich people in the same class, five hundred 747 passengers in different classes, and 12,853 rabid sheep, than one flyrights.

I'm guess the latter, which is probably the the first sensible thing you've said in this thread.

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 07-20-2002).]

That was great Ken hAAmer!

Yeah, Ken's a real comedian...
I have one question, Ken: If I'm so UN-sensible, why on earth would someone of your high stature bother to respond, over and over and over again? Why would you lower yourself? Aren't you too important for the rest of us low-lifes? Does the world revolve around you, and your terriffic brand of humor? Seems odd to me that 130 + replies tells me there's at least SOMETHING to what I've been saying... Unfortunately, I wouldn't expect any support from a frequent flyer board to consider the rights of the average ticket buyer who pays most of the bills. That would be like thinking the KKK will take up the cause of civil rights.
Now here's the possible replies Ken will make:
1. "Yes, flyrights, I'm fed up with you and your ilk looking out for the rights of all the crummy little economy and free ticket crowd...this is my last reply to this dying thread...I'll show you...I'm above all of this trash talk... VIVA the rights of the first class passengers who the airline can't live without".
2. (there won't be any reply)
Jim

[This message has been edited by flyrights (edited 07-20-2002).]

Actually, there's 100+ replies telling you that you are so far off base that we can hardly believe the kind of misguided notions that flow from your keyboard.

Though you might see yourself as some kind of "defender of the poor coach flyer", the fact is you're watching out for only 1 person - yourself.

BTW, I'm of the "average ticket buyer" variety myself. Never purchased a First Class ticket in my entire life.

I agree!!!

Maybe Flyrights thinks that so many respond because people like what he says???

I'm just reading now because it is so amusing just watching him/her trying to defend some ***** idea!

[This message has been edited by bagold (edited 07-20-2002).]

BA GOLD, you mention your various elite status levels in your profile... DOn't you think it might be more interesting if NON elite people evaluated YOUR theories about pecking order priorities... afterall, you're lumping me in with the non-elite "great unwashed", which I don't mind getting lumped in with... and you're evaluating all those you consider lower than you... I just think it would be EQUALLY fair for THEM to evaluate YOU... Oh well... so much for fair evaluations. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the frequent flying game. Unfortunately, people who expect something for nothing, like yourself, and people who think they are better than everyone else simply because their company has paid for various tickets to "earn" you elite level, which I guess gives you meaning to your otherwise ordinary life, speaks for itself...doesn't it... It makes no difference to me how many agree or disagree with me, I think I'm a pretty good judge of fairness. Asking a bunch of rich people to treat less rich people fair is admittedly unrealistic. I must say I though some people would agree with me... surely some do, but don't want to be criticized by you, since you're so perfect... I guess they simply lack the courage... Oh, what it must be like being you, with all your elite levels out in the open to view... It probably bugs you that some lowlife like me, who is NOT any elite level with British Airways has a Concorde and First Class ticket. Imagine, if we were seated next to each other on the Concorde, and I told you I wasn't even elite level...just imagine the distain you would have for me... That probably really bothers you, doesn't it!
Also, I'm surprised someone of your incredibly high stature, regalness and elite levels would continue to respond on this topic, again and again, over and over. If I'm so off, why continue to respond? Why don't you start a topic... let me know what it is, I'd like to see what you have to say that's so fascinating...
What's it like being you? You probably have all your Gold cards on display in your palatial English Country estate... i'll bet you save the expired ones too, and just look at them to bring back fond memoiries...like the time you got upgraded on some flight, or the time they let you on some plane and had all these economy people left stranded... that probably made you feel REAL important, didn't it!
Jim

Normally I wouldn't, but I'm going stir crazy with cabin fever. I've been pretty much confined to my hotel room for the last week with a nasty stomach bug, most likely aquired on a recent quick trip to a developing country in Latin America. The recent prescription of Ciprofloxacin and Metronidazole seems to be working, so hopefully I'll be getting out tomorrow and back to work on Monday.
Well, not so much my "'terriffic' brand of humor," but around me -- definitely.
Given that essentially all of those replies think you're off your rocker, there is SOMETHING to what you've been saying. It's the outlandishness of it all. But that's actually kinda normal for a troll.
I'm pretty sure that you'd have a hard time finding support for your ideas in any forum.
You pay most of the bills? Well then what about my phone bill? And you'd better pony up for United -- they've gone to the government looking for a billion and change.
Oooo aren't we clever. More name calling, along with the previous anonymous accusations. I guess you have everybody on this forums number, eh? How 'bout the rest of the planet?
Wrong again. Now there's a surprise.
Right. Like that'll ever happen.

Say, posting here reminds me of shining a flashlight around a penguin pool.


[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 07-21-2002).]

Hey, forget him. What about me? Do I have any status levels?
Ooooo... d*mn rights! So get crackin'! I've already started an unscientific samlpling of non-elite flyers. Why don't you do likewise, and post the results?
The problem here is the "great unwashed" masses don't particularly like being lumped in with you, so you're actually a couple of steps lower. I think the hierarchy goes like this:

Mother Theresa (AA Executive Platinum)
Neil Armstrong (UA Premier)
Abe Lincoln (AS MVP)
The guy at the Piggly Wiggly that helps you carry your groceries to your car
Linda
Kids playing street hockey
the unwashed masses
politicians
lawyers
journalists
flyrights
Ken Lay

No, you're putting words in his mouth, much as you have done throughout this thread.
Me too! SO get on with it.
Now that's funny.
You're really big on making accusations about people you know almost nothing about, aren't you?
Well, actually, my company pays for my tickets so I can go places and earn money for the firm. The elite levels are just perks.
I'm guessing belittling other people makes you feel better about your own life, right?
Good thing too, 'cause I don't think anyone agrees with you.
I think you're:
- wrong
- deluded
- a troll
- probably have a set of "new clothes"
Why? And if you'd like to send a big chunk of money my way, I'd be happy to be rich for you, so you can test your theory.
Wrong again.
Wow... so you're saying they're all cowards? I hardly think there's any real consequence to disagreeing with anyone here, so that seems markedly improbable. Well, unless they have some sort of weird phobia, I guess.
Huh? Why? BA must have hundreds of Concorde and thousands of First Class passengers every day, every day of the year. I imagine that only a small percentage of them have any sort of elite status with BA. Are you suggesting that every time a non-elite takes a Concorde or BA First seat it bother him/us/me? (Say, wait a minute! Maybe that explains the twitch in my left eye!)
Given your tripe posted here, it's pretty easy to imagine anyone seated next to you quickly developing a disdain for you. In fact, I can even see them trying to de-board you. At 41,000 ft.
OK, here's a couple that people have enjoyed:
'I had the duck': 'Comedy Food' and other tales
The 3rd Millenium's first MHD
YVR - YVR: Can airplanes fly backwards
The greatest thing on earth. And I feel tremendous sympathy for those who don't feel that way about their life.

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 07-21-2002).]

Wait a minute! I knew this all sounded familiar. The juvenile name calling, the outlandish routings with the preposterous ticketing, the absurd conundrums, and the bravado of claiming to be a frequent flyer expert -- weren't these all the trademarks of some 'teenage' troll posting using his father's account some years ago?

Or is the medication starting to have an effect on me?

Aaaaarrrggghh!!!!!!!

Flyrights, please get it into your insane head.

An Air Ticket does not guarantee transportation at the times stated on the ticket. If you look closely at the inside of the ticket, it says to this effect, and that no credence is placed on 'Status OK', 'Confirmed' or anything else. Here's the full text:

Whilst British Airways makes every effort to provide seats for which confirmed reservations have been made, no absolute guarantee of seat availability is denoted by the expression 'reservations', 'bookings', 'Status OK' and the timings attached to them.

This means that the airline only has the obligation to fly you from A to B, at any time.

When you pay for a full-fare Club Europe ticket, you are buying flexibility. This means that you can turn up at the airport for any flight and BA will do their best to accomodate you on the first available service. Some people pay £500 for this when a £50 ticket would still get you on the same flight. You are not simply buying a bigger seat or a better meal: intra-EU, the seats are the same in business class for god's sake!!

So, when you buy this flexibility you are also buying flexibility when problems occur. BA will place you on the first available flight as you are more valuable than a lower class of flier. But, you have willingly chosen to or to not pay for this value. It's not a question of 'rights'. If you had been denied the chance to buy a Club Europe ticket that would have been against your rights, but you were not.

It's a similar case with upgrades. If economy is overbooked and there are spare seats in Club, who are they going to upgrade? The discounted £199 fliers or the full fare eonomy pax who have paid £800? The answer is the latter; as they are the most likely to pay more for Club next time once they have experienced it.

To conclude, I have one question for you - why didn't you (knowing that there were seats on the next flight), go back to the ticket desk, buy a new Club Europe ticket, and then check-in again? After all, this would be the same as bidding in an auction for any spare seats! I know why you didn't do this: you are too cheap and wanted status for nothing!!

The simple rule is - pay more and you get treated better. Write to BA and ask for their upgrade/overbooking/rebooking priority list. I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you. The reason they don't actively tell everyone is that the average traveller won't understand the system.

Oh, and by the way, you asked:

I hardly think their agents at the airport have the ability to sort everyone's ticket type out, when determining priority... that is why the ORDER of check in seems to me to be the ONLY FAIR way of determining who should get PRIORITY to go on the first flight out with seats.

You are wrong. It's all done by the booking system. There is a priority on the ticket and on your booking. When a situation arises such as this, all the staff do is press a few buttons and a list appears of who are the most important passengers...based on fare paid, FFP level, whether they are travelling in a group etc. etc.