PineyBob

Just because winning seems hopeless, doesn't mean we don't fight back and fight back HARD!, Delta has its Rats, & US has it Cockroaches a fact that I had in.

What we need is to turn the roaches and rats into rhino's and ram this issue home. make them feel the heat now because there will be a time when the economy will turn and profits will be back with a vengence.

The unions are mostly powerless to stop the wage concessions, but we are not powerless, we can and should vote with out mouths and with our wallets NOW! Form you own ww.saveskymiles.com or cockroach group for your airline. let's build a data base of media outlets friendly to our cause on slow news days.

Write your Congressional leaders and ask to testify before Congress on airline matters you're a citizen you have that right. They take us for granted and try to bully us. I for one will not be bullied. This is one Cockroach that is hard to kill

alhcfp

Yes- the airlines are drowning in RED INK. It is also their fault. They make the rules, we just get to use them to our own benefit.

I spent 6 years in the trade show business. One year I was on the road for 200 nights. At all our trade show industry meetings we talked about how the internet and video-conferening would hurt trade shows. Because 4 years ago, trade show attendance was up, the inductry thought that alternatives to being there would not really affect it.

They were wrong. Like everything else, it took longer than expected for the new technology to become widely used.

We are at the point where ALMOST ALL travel is discretionary. For the airlines to survive they have to ackowledge this. If they keep antagonizing their best customers, they will NOT stay in business.

Gaucho100K

I dont think that frequent flyer programs are to blame for the industry meltdown... so in that aspect I am in agreement with those that are protesting.

My point is that its makes no sense for frequent flyers that are smart enough to know how to play the system and understand all the rule details, to expect the airlines (many of which are -btw- in financial difficulties) to treat them like true VIP and extend them all the perks.

Furthermore, I strongly disagree when someone insists that fare savvy flyers that buy the lowest possible fares to accrue only mileage and status in ff programs are the BEST customers, and that airlines should do the best they can to not alienate them. Therein lies the crux of this issue....

Yes, these people may have the highest tier in a given program, but they are basically free-riders (in economic terms) and do not constitute the customer that makes an airline profitable.

aceflyer2

Well said, Tango. My thoughts exactly.

FOH

Personally I'm much more concerned about having financially stable airlines in the USA than the perks. If I buy a coach fare (which is all of my travel), I expect to ride in coach.

Now then, if United were to eliminate Economy Plus for Premiers, I would seriously consider alternative airlines. But I'd stay loyal with almost any other reduction in perks save that.

I felt a little guilty sitting on a IAD-SEA flight a couple weeks ago, upgraded to F using 500-milers on my $248 round trip fare, next to a guy on his way back from FRA probably on a C fare (or at least H so he could upgrade). The gravy train has to end soon.

PineyBob

Why would you feel the least bit guilty? You made the system created by the airlines out of greed work for you! Trust me this Friday when I fly from PHL to GRR and the fist leg to PIT is in 2C I feel no guilt whatsoever that I paid $177.50 RT. Profit is not a PineyBob problem! No one held a gun to B Ben Baldanza's head and forced him to charge me that price. If he's dumb enuff to sell a ticket for that, then I'm smart enough to buy it, and leverage my status as Cockroach Preferred to get into first. Did I write the fare rules? NO!!! Did I write the FF Program Rules??? NO!!! DO I decide the price of the ticket? NO!!! All of these issues are not my problem. Is it my problem that for years they have spent billions to lobby Congress to gain various things and now when the market changes all their efforts blow up in there faces? NO!!! If the so called majors want to look at why they are where they are I would suggest they stand in front of a collective mirror.

My job as a PAX is to leverage the system to my advantage in terms of what my goals and objectives are. If it's just cheap travel for liesure or business then I buy the cheapest fare from whomever goes where I want to go. If Their are other circumstances that are unique to mt particular situation then I chose what works for ME. I mean I Am not supposed to leverage the contract to my advantage? Fairness and airline profit NEVER enter into my equation ever!

In my profession of Sales Training we have and expression "What's In It For ME"! or WIIFM for short. Every personal or business decision we make passes the WIIFM test! From the basics of brushing your teeth (THe WIIFM is fresh breath). Remember the airlines defined the rules of battle now that the battlefield has changed they want the customers to pay for their folly and my answer is a flat NO!!!! NOT WITHOUT A FIGHT! It's MY MONEY, NOT THEIRS. and if they aren't around in a year, Tough, you reap what you sow!


[This message has been edited by PineyBob (edited 03-08-2003).]

Gaucho100K

I agree with you. You are smart enough to play the system... good for you. But, why do you hold it against the airlines when they do an analysis and determine that smart customers like you are NOT the center of the universe, and instead work to reward other flyers that give them more $$$...???

It sounds to me like you are just accustomed to getting something for nothing... and now that the party is over... well, you know where Im going.

Its funny how many flyers are just screaming bloody murder and jumping from carrier to carrier that will maintain their sand-castle perks for a little longer (for free, that is). The best example of this behaviour is a militant group of 1K flyers over at the United board... fuming about the now defunct and pretty much useless (for chepo fares) SWUs.

Of course, as one other FTer poster the other day, things may change when UA stops operating and AA goes closer to Chapter 11... maybe things will be once again taken with the right dose of perspective?

[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 03-09-2003).]

PineyBob

It sounds to me like you are just accustomed to getting something for nothing... and now that the party is over... well, you know where Im going.

Why fume and fuss? because this is a somewhat short term situation. Profits will be back and the more perks preserved NOW means more perks later. Unions are powerless against the economic tide that is rushing over them. We as the providers of much of that cash get a vote. Remember the "Golden Rule"?? "Those with the gold make the rules" FFers are the single largest "voting block" within the industry in terms of cash to spend. We have econimic power and we should use it early and often to preserve what we percieve as earned benefits in what is sometimes YEARS of loyalty

ChgoBob

I believe the airlines will cut/reduce whatever they think necessary, as it should be. However, if FF programs are diminished severely, I know of 2 credit cards that I will cut up and never use anymore. Perhaps they (Credit Card Companies) should be made aware of the probable backlash? "Follow the money" always seems to work.



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Have a nice day flying United!
ChgoBob

PineyBob

Follow the money is the sub text to the Golden Rule! I can't for the life of me understand why people would allow these changes to occur without a fight. So what if we are defending the economic equivelent of the Alamo!

Make them pay, because as soon as the shoe is on the other foot they will surely make us pay, and pay and pay and pay and pay.

paradocs

Remember what happened shortly after the fall of the Alamo! Those brave defenders did not die for nothing.

PineyBob

Thank you for putting the exclmation point on my post! Well said.

FOH

Let me put it this way. I want my vendors to be making money (a little bit anyway). When I'm flying on a fare that comes to to around 4 cents/flown mile including taxes yet consuming a service that I _know_ costs far more than that, it's not in the vendor's interest. And it's not necessarily the best in the long run because if the vendor can't make a profit then I may not be able to buy from them again in the future.

That said, I'm in full burning mode right now with respect to airline miles. That IAD-SEA flight cleaned out the remaining e-upgrades I had. I was actually hoping (for UA's sake) that my upgrade didn't clear because there were enough people on international C tickets or 1Ks flying that an el cheapo customer like myself would get the service that he paid for. (not much in this case)

aceflyer2

This is an excellent point. I, too, will be tearing up 2 credit cards. Why take one of the few aspects of commercial aviation providing positive cash flow and destroy it?


QUOTE]Originally posted by ChgoBob:
I believe the airlines will cut/reduce whatever they think necessary, as it should be. However, if FF programs are diminished severely, I know of 2 credit cards that I will cut up and never use anymore. Perhaps they (Credit Card Companies) should be made aware of the probable backlash? "Follow the money" always seems to work.

[/QUOTE]

worldbanker

All though we all get along despite being on differnet carriers and programs, we are gamblers in a casino. We know the house has an advantage but rather than band together, our individual greed gets the best of us as we try to actively seek out our own interests. Face it, the only reason most of want the airlines to do well is so that we may be able to use all of those miles we have stockpiled. Sorry to sound cynical but just being honest, thats all. Look at your stock portfolios and see how value has dropped, why should an unregulated industry such as frequent flyer miles be any different?



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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."