This is the other benefit to always flying in the upper classes, you think what it used to be like in coach is still true today but it doesn't matter if you're wrong ;-)

Delta is one airline that I know of, and I very much doubt it's the only one, that now charges it's trans-Atlantic coach passengers for an alcoholic drink. I'm not a big drinker but do quite like a glass of wine to numb the taste of the airline food, but not at US$4 a glass.

[edited to add the second instance of 'coach']

[This message has been edited by kiwibigdave (edited 08-20-2003).]

[This message has been edited by kiwibigdave (edited 08-20-2003).]

Before finding Flyertalk I always flew in coach and redeemed miles in coach. I read on Flyertalk about all these people doing trips to Singapore for lots of miles. I made a trip to Paris in December 2000 to get status with UA for double miles on flights in 2001. In 2001 I made several trips to Singapore in economy and received triple miles with a bonus promo. I was getting over 50,000 miles for each $300 trip. The 14 to 16 hour flights from SFO to Hong Kong are killer on the body.

In the past four years I have been pulling in an average of 700,000 miles a year with all the knowledge I gain from FT. The best way to use those miles is flying business or first class because it is easy to accumulate more miles if you have the time and like to fly. I fly enough in economy when I am going for the lucrative airline promotional bonuses.

Sorry, one more thing there Julie, it's my belief that upgrades using miles on flights to NZ from LAX are notoriously hard to come by. For you, with Alaskan miles, it'd have to be Qantas I guess, and there is maybe just one flight a day. Can anyone else provide any experience on that?

kiwi, I went back and changed it to "Europe or wherever". We likely wouldn't have to be picky about dates anyway, we're both lucky that way, hubby and I! Am I right though on the basics of how it works? I'm dying to know, I'm so excited about this!

Two reasons why I use my miles for 1st awards.

1) I have mostly AA miles, and you can change the dates if you have a first class ticket. If you have a coach award, you would have to pay to change the dates.

2) I wouldn't spent $10,000 on a plane ticket (with the possible exception of a RTW F ticket). But I will spend $300 on a ticket and upgrade to the $10,000 seat or just use miles for the entire ticket if the coach fare is > 4 cents/status mile. That is the only way I would sit up front.

It's definitely a fair question. Some here would always fly F, others would always fly Y to get more trips. And we all love the cheap paid seat + upgrade. I tend to assess it by trip and by airline.

For example, whenever I'm looking to book an award seat, I start at AA and I look at coach awards. Two reasons: (1) I have AA Gold, which means that the airport experience will be tolerable regardless of class flown, and (2) AA has MRTC on most planes, which means that most Y seats are tolerable.

Failing to find an AA award, I go straight for F awards on other carriers. I have a bunch of miles, but no status on anyone else. Therefore, I must go F if I want to check a bag, get a desirable seat, or get through security/immigration without a long line (at some airports).

I usually find an F award somewhere on DL, NW, US, or UA. Last resort is F on AA - to me that's a less valuable award because Gold status already provides the most important benefits to me.

To me, the whole purpose of an F award is to reduce the stress and frustration that comes with flying coach on an airline on which you hold no status - especially if it's int'l or involves many segments. (I've never held a lot of elite cards - just low and mid tier stuff - and now I've lost most of those.) Get me out the long lines, and I'm happy. A big comfy seat and good wine is an added bonus!

The UPG awards are still the best value, especially on AA where you can UPG on any fare. In 4/03, I flew SFO-FRA-SFO for about $300 on business with 50,000 UPG award. The lowest business class fare was $5,000, at the time, though occasionally they do drop B fares.

I have earned multiple millions of miles in various programs, and I use award tickets for economy only because.

1) I have gifted awards to no less than 18 relatives and friends, always leaving me with a nominal balance anyway. As previous threads discuss, a good philosophy is to use miles before they are devalued.

2) When I fly internationally for work, I fly paid business and upgrade to first with airline provided upgrade coupons. When I fly on my own nickel (revenue or miles), I sit in the back. It doesn�t hurt that much. When the flight lands, and you are still alive it is a relief to think of how many miles you have �saved.�

3) I used some of these �saved miles� to take my wife and kids on a cruise last year. If I had been flying business or first, this would not have been possible. There are many ways to redeem miles other than flights.

4) The service and food in first and business is overrated. I have never had a meal in the air that would be considered good on the ground. It is not the �treat� that many people think it is.

5) While I can sleep in fully reclining international first seats, I cannot sleep that well in the business class. But, if the load is light in the back, I can get 2 or 3 seats (or more) and stretch out and get some good rest. There will almost always be somebody sitting next to you in business or first, and even if there isn�t, the armrests don�t move.

My advice would be use the miles to sit in the back, and share the remainder, or do something else fun with them.


------------------
United UGS, 1K, Million Mile Flyer
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun

Hmm, if you still think alcoholic beverages are free in all classes on international flights (at least on U.S. airlines), you're going to be in for a bit of sticker shock if you sit in the back.

No. Alaska's mileage-paid upgrades are only good for AS-operated flights so you're limited to the lower 48, Canada and Mexico where AS flies to. AFAIK, there are no partner upgrade awards (very few airline FFPs allow mileage paid upgrades on other airlines).

It doesn't look like anyone has addressed this yet.

The Alaska reward chart reads:

* Upgrades can be used in conjunction with any ticketed coach purchased fare.*
* Valid on flights operated by Alaska Airlines.
* Booked in "U" class.

You can't use your Alaska miles to upgrade on a partner airline (BA/AA/CO/NW). If a 5,000 mile upgrade to International First was possible with Alaska theirs would surely be the most popular FF program of all time.

That said, 5,000 miles for an upgrade on Alaska's longer domestic routes is still a good deal.


Edit to say terenz beat me to it while I was typing

[This message has been edited by birdstrike (edited 08-20-2003).]

The old saying goes, "Getting there is half the fun." I flew F in April to Austria on Swiss via Zurich. I arrived relaxed. I had a flat bed, great food, big dining table (I hate those trays that pull out of the armrest) and got to use the First Class Lounge in ZRH both ways. Plus, if you have to change dates (not cities) there is no charge for changing.

Two minor notes -- as observed above, Alaska is 5000 miles each way to upgrade. But that doesn't cover partner airlines. And Alaska doesn't fly to Europe.

A colleague of mine just flew IAD-SEA-ANC-SEA-IAD last week, all upgraded. Of course, AS gives free confirmed upgrades to their top elites too!

Alaska, for the moment, is very generous with upgrades. Folks are waiting to see what changes next year brings.

I'd like to disagree with the earlier poster who said that upgrades on especially long haul routes are difficult to come by. If SYD is the destination, UA serves with flights from both SFO and LAX and I've never failed to clear my upgrade. Sure, it's something that's in demand... and people do pay C fares on this route...

In general you can only upgrade with miles on the carrier whose miles they are. So you can upgrade United's SYD-SFO flight with United miles, but you can't use United miles to upgrade a flight operated by UA's partner Air New Zealand for LAX-AKL, HNL-AKL, LAX-LHR, or LAX-PPT...

There are exceptions to the above, though -- for instance, UA and LH have reciprocal upgrade options and I believe KL and NW do as well.

Why use miles to upgrade when you can get a virtually unlimited supply of upgrade certificates (Air Canada Aeroplan as Super Elite)?

Just kidding, while I do enjoy the unlimited upgrades on Air Canada, I actually enrolled in LH Miles and More program for the possibility to use their miles for upgrades for travel from Africa to Europe.

Now I wish I had miles in my SQ KrisFlyer account so I could upgrade my SIN-JNB trip next month. 10 hours in the back is not life threatening (oh wait a minute, it can be with DVT) but sitting up in business or first gives me a much more pleasant disposition.

I think that everyone has hit the main points. It is how you value the miles. I have redeemed almost 4 million FF miles and now wish that I had done more of the long hauls in business or first. I used to think that 100,000 miles was a lot of miles but not any more. They just seem to keep coming at 400-500,000/year.

Welcome to FlyerTalk, Julie. At the heart of your inquiry is age old debate of quality versus quantity. Would you prefer to take less frequent "free" trips and travel in style or not? For me, I usually burn my miles on international trips in economy, as tempting as it is to spend more miles to sit up front. See, with an economy reward, I can afford to bring my fiancee with me, for example, to Europe rather than traveling alone in more spledor. With that said, I am making a special exception for future travel to Australia where I can't bear the though of being a captive in the back of the bus on a 15 hour flight.

You will find that many FlyerTalkers almost exclusively use their miles to upgrade and/or claim premium cabin awards. At the same time, these same FlyerTalkers often bemoan the use of miles for economy travel. I'm not saying that they're wrong, but you might want to consider that they wear different shoes from you.

Specifically, many of our friends and acquaintances on this board have huge mileage balances in the hundeds of thousands, even millions. Under those circumstances, the expense of 100,000 miles for a transatlantic first class seat be a drop in the bucket. But if it takes you several years to build up that many miles, it may be a steep pill to swallow.

So, above all, consider your own mileage accrual potential (and your own financial resources when you purchase an economy class ticket and burn the miles to upgrade) when you contemplate in what level of luxury to travel. For me, I'd rather maximize the use of my limited miles to see more of the world even if it means traveling in less comfort. Your miles, of course, may vary.

[This message has been edited by cAAl (edited 08-20-2003).]