I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning for flying Y, but...

...would you do the same if you had no elite status to at least ensure semi-humane treatment from airline personnel?

To me, it's a whole different ballgame flying coach with no status vs. flying coach with at least a low-elite status card.

Clearly, redeeming miles for international first class awards or upgrades provides the best value. However, my international travel is limited. I will, and have, redeemed miles for domestic coach awards. These have usually been for situations where the fare is simply more than I am willing to pay for my leisure travel (i.e. more than $325) and the distance is relatively short (less than 3 hours). I can't see spending the extra miles for first class for a short flight. For longer domestic flights, such as trans-con, Alaska, or Hawaii, it's first class awards all the way.

I value miles at about 1.3 cents each. This is down from 1.6 cents each about two years ago. Don't feel bad about redeeming your miles for coach tickets if it is a trip you really want to take and the fares are too much.

pinniped - Good point, but it doesn't really apply to me. Usually, when I travel on award tickets I am with my family. I buy one revenue ticket for myself, and upgrade. BUT, I let my wife sit up front. I am left in the back with my two small children (now 4 and 6.) I never get good economy seats in this arrangement, and the FAs don't even know who I am.

So actually, I get no special treatment at all. But entertaining my 4 and 6 year olds keeps me so occupied that perhaps I don't notice what I am missing!

------------------
United UGS, 1K, Million Mile Flyer
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun

6 foot and 225# is one reason

chance to maybe sleep is a second

lots of miles, little time for trips (fly better less often, about to chance with both ran and les retired)

Cheap fairs for domestic coach on pleasure, point to valuable for such

Waiting time in lounge

Priority loading, check in, treatment

Julie,

Domestic and Int'l are two totally different things. When you have status with an airline you get upgrades normally (domestically, although this applies as well with many to the Caribbean or even Central America), these range from a few, to unlimited depending on airline and program.

As far as F vs. Y goes, you have to understand that many here like myself live on planes. I do not fly Y plain and simple, and rarely have the opportunity or gumption to redeem for an actual ticket (although it is known to happen from time to time). Generally however I choose the J route rather than F as I find it generally better value for money. Being quite tall and consatntly travelling long haul means that I live in fear of being in the back cabin on anything over a few hours (in US domestic terms, anything beyond NYC-ORD or MIA).

If you read around, you'll find that many prefer the J upgrade rather than the J redemption as with it you are still getting good value PLUS you are still earning new miles (There are routes and promos out there where at times you can earn as much as you burn by doing this).

My philosophy has been, that time has always been very precious on my vacations. Ergo, I'd rather fly F/J and arrive in good shape rather than arrive in coach and lose a good day to recovery. But then again, I'm 36 and my shoulders are a lot wider than a coach seat.

Steve

Let me congratulate you on what will clearly be a long & happy marriage!

Welcome to flyertalk Julie. Why indeed... I think a lot of people have hit on a range of good reasons here. The dollar value is certainly one. You can get a round trip to London from NY for under $400 most of the year and under $300 a lot of times. Doing it in business will set you back about 6000 and first $10000 or more. Last time my wife and I went it was 80000 miles for a business class and 100000 for first. Up until recently I had been sitting on nearly a million miles in the FF programs of two airlines that were in Ch11. First was pretty obvious. I usually am happy with business, and I have done coach from NY to both London and Tokyo this year to build miles on AA. But it really does make a difference in how you feel when you arrive. Going in first on UA for instance you have flat bed to sleep in and generally the treatment is very good. Both my wife and I found we were feeling much better and ready to make the most of our short vacation. I frequently only have a few days and seldom more than 5, so feeling good when I arrive really makes a difference.

Thanks so much everyone! I'm glad I started this topic, as it has been very interesting and informative. I sure am bummed that I can't fly w/mile upgrades on AS's partners though, after getting my hopes so high.

Uugh... now I'm wondering if I should not go with AS as I had planned. Maybe NW or AA would make more sense if I want to upgrade to F on int'l flights? Just look at me, you guys have turned me into an F person now! I better be careful how I use that letter.

*sigh*... back in a state of indecision. I can see I'm going to have to do a lot more research and digging.

Julie the Newbie

Flights on AS can be used to accumulate miles on AA. Join all the programs you can, major in one, but don't miss opportunities to add miles to any program.

I don't think this has been mentioned on this thread but don't certain airlines require you to purchase a ticket in certain fare classes that are ususally not the chapest ones in order to be able to use miles to upgrade. This can apply to both domestic -(i.e. Delta ) or International (I'm thinking CO but not sure about that)

So if you have to pay more $ to get an upgradable fare (vs. the cheapest coach fare)this needs to figure into your determination of what is worthwhile for you.

*Coach award
*FC/Business award
*More expensive coach ticket using miles to upgrade

Remember that if it's a long trip your upgraded ticket will at least earn some of those miles to replace the ones you used. I would imagine this is more of a factor for those who have lower balaces and/or less ability to earn FF miles. Those with millions of miles to burn who fly frequently would probably just redeem for F if they wanted to fly up front.

You can't upgrade to FC from economy is it is a 3 class of service flight (which applies to most/all international flights) unless you're paying for a business class ticket. Also, NW doesn't have FC internationally. Only UA and AA do of the U.S. airlines.

Julie,

When contemplating a main FF miles program, one should at least consider
the nearby airports, and which airlines use these airports.

Having said that, it would also make sense to evaluate how your wish to
earn these miles, and how you wish to spend them.

This includes considering the three main alliances: Star, One World, and
the NW, KLM, CO and AS alliance.

Personally, I prefer AA and AS. AA may have arguably the best FF program
of any of the major US carriers. Their upgrades are cheap, and even non-
elites can use them. (We are talking basically North America here.)

NW, AS, and others, have unlimited upgrades (again, N.A.), but only for
elites in their program.

Keep in mind, that, if you have miles in one FF program, you can earn and
use them with the partner airlines in that alliance. Just check for any
"gotcha's", such as higher award levels, and other restrictions.

Now here is the interesting part. AS is actually allied with AA, and the
NW, KLM, CO bunch. You you can earn and redeeem miles on AA, NW, KLM, CO,
and others, with your AS mileage program (but you can't do this with the
AA, NW, KLM, or CO programs). So, AS is in a unique spot. (But this may
change, and be careful, award redemption levels can be higher using a
partner airline's program, than using the same airline's own program.)

In fact, I am AA Plat, but am considering building elite status on AS next
year. I will still have a chance at upgrading cheaply on AA (but with less
of a chance, and no perks), but as an AS elite, you get free upgrades on AS
and some free upgrades on NW as well.

(Just keep in mind that some transcon AS flights are much more expensive
than on other airlines).


I put together the table below for my own use, but others may find it
useful as well. You just need to copy it to Word or Notepad, and use
a non-proportional font, such as Courier, to properly space out the
columns. Please note, I have NOT includes award levels for partner
airlines from another partner airline, as a rule (basically only CO
and Quantas, using AS miles), and no F on three class int'l flights.

Airline--------Saver-----Saver-----Upgrade---Business/First
---------------Off-peak--Peak------OW--------Regular--Peak

US/Can

Alaska------AS-20000----------------5000-----40000----60000
American----AA-25000---------------15000-----45000
Continental-AS-25000-------------------------45000
Northwest---NW-25000---------------10000-----45000
United------UA-25000---------------15000-----40000


Alaska

American----AA-25000---------------15000-----45000
Northwest---NW-25000---------------10000-----45000
United--------(25000)--------------15000----(40000)


Hawaii

American----AA-35000---------------15000-----75000--(60000)
Continental-AS-40000-------------------------65000
Northwest---NW-35000---------------17500-----75000
United------UA-35000---------------15000-----60000


Europe

American----AA-40000-----60000-----25000-----90000
Continental-AS-50000------------------------100000
Northwest---NW-50000---------------20000-----80000
United------UA-50000---------------30000-----80000


Asia

American----AA-50000-----65000-----25000-----90000-----(Japan only)
Continental-AS-60000------------------------120000
Northwest---NW-60000---------------25000-----90000
United------UA-60000---------------30000-----90000


Australia

Northwest---NW-80000------------------------110000
Quantas-----AS-80000------------------------105000
United------UA-60000---------------30000-----90000
.
.



[This message has been edited by IJK (edited 08-21-2003).]

Now we buy coach tickets and so far have always been able to upgrade with certs.

The only award tickets we have taken were for Concorde and BA first. I am ok with flying Business internationally--upgraded from coach.

We do, however, have lots and lots of miles and I certainly intend to use them to fly Internaional First after we retire.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Julie the Newbie:
[B]Hi,

I've heard on more than one topic folks saying that they always use their awards to fly 1st Class. Is this the majority of you? I just don't get it. I'd *way* much rather have 2 or 3 award tix to Europe flying coach than one award ticket in 1st. (Ex: AA is 125,000 for F to Eur, and 40,000 (or 60,000 peak) for Y). Is there something I'm missing? I suppose maybe the amount that you would pay for the same 1st Class ticket would give the award more value to the dollar, is this it? Even so I'd rather enjoy more awards, rather than doing it once 'in style'. It seems F is over-rated. Then again I've never flown it so maybe therein lies the issue. Apparently I don't know what I'm missing. Is it the alcoholic beverages, or? I think I'll take my V-8 on ice and cloth seats, thus quenching that travel bug a bit more often!

Julie the Newbie

Food, drink, seats, pajamas, nicer pillows, thicker blankers or duvets, movies, massages or facials, lounges...it's all the above, some of which are more important than others to most people...

There is that $/mile ratio thing...

But who am I so argue that? I just spent 120,000 miles in lieu of $1,300 to go coach to Bermuda over Labor Day (2 hour flight from Boston) because we wouldn't have taken the mini-vacation for our family of 4 otherwise.

Good use of miles at 1 cent per mile? Certainly not an exchange rate I am proud of...but in the end, I think it's a great use of miles, because we wouldn't have gone, and I have a lot of miles sitting in the bank getting devalued.

But that FC trip to Hong Knog and Thailand on CX for my honeymoon...that was a great use of miles too!