---

Yep!

And also, if ya' recall, can anyone say "Latin Pass?"

That MM promo was shut down just as fast as the plug could be pulled on their website!

Discretion is the greater part of valor?

well, in my judgement, the two latest examples: Latin Pass and the 'Pudding Guy'-way worked out for more FylerTalkers by having been published/posted here, before they ended (the Pudding Guy thing didn't end before the initial expiry date, and the Latin Pass thing end only weeks after many FlyerTalkers did profit.

and Randy did (still does?) honour monthly special tips ,so far unpublished' special deals (loopholes?) on his homepage.

some 'oldies' here don't need heavy 'advertising' of loopholes - I agree. But FlyerTalk is joined by many newbies day after day ...

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 08-07-2002).]

Let me say with sincerity that I am thankful for the information I receive from FT.


As far as lists go, I like them if I am on them.

Please note: I will scan my email vigorously this evening to review any possible invitations.

It wasn't possible to do what Pudding Guy did once he posted his story. He didn't tell his story until the date had past for a certain doubling offer, so anyone trying to do what he did after than would have to spend twice the amount of money, assuming they could still find tremendous quantities of the 25-cent puddings and the doubling coupons. But anyone could have done it with the available info on FT prior to PG ever posting had they put two and two together and done a little work on their own.

I think a lot of people, when they figure out a slightly complicated loophole, would hope that people don't outline a step-by-step here revealing in detail all the work they put into figuring this out, but put a little thought and effort into it themselves (just as PG did not put his Latin Pass itinerary here, but gave people the same info he had to work with so they could work for it themselves). As it's sometimes frustrating for FTers to have posters want FTers to work out a miles-intensive RTW itinerary for them without lifting a finger themselves, it can be the same with these types of loopholes.

Buried info, hints as opposed to detailed roadmaps - some of these types of approaches could keep info open and without helping those who are unwilling to help themselves.

While the debate is always fun, in the end it is up to Randy (obviously he could close error and loophole threads if he felt them wrong) and to us individually to do whatever we feel is right. I do hope though that whatever people do, the flames for posting or not posting these things are not tolerated.

[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 08-07-2002).]

Sharing info, (secret?) tips, was the genesis for Flyertalk.

Consider Flyertalk as an educational resource, a traveller's 'think tank'. We find posts such as "Pudding Guy's story", "Latin Pass", Ozstamp's recent RTW+>$1000, and many other tales to be inspirational.

Ozstamp, among many others, benefitted recently from MX's PVR deal and wanted to "pay it forward" with his insight into RTWs. Others disagree with this concept, and want to restrict info for fear of infiltrators.

If we discover travel opportunities, we share them first with our inner circles (family, friends, associates) and eventually post them on FT to enlighten and maybe inspire others to share their insights. If we hoard info, it eventually leaks out and ends up in the WSJ anyway; exposed in such a manner has appeared to be detrimental to FT as a community.

Flyertalk is at its best when we are inspired or we inspire others to optimize our travel experiences. Difficult task for any "list" to emulate.

[This message has been edited by anim8r (edited 08-07-2002).]

Anim8tr,

There is a HUGE difference in something like a price glitch which WILL be corrected in the short run whether it is posted on FT or NOT and drawing HUGE attention to a loophole which many have been using for years and which is known by many.

Allow me to explain. On a RTW, there are literally dozens of "tricks" that can be employed to maximize mileage and/or segments. These are spoken about often especially in the STAR forum. Often the questions posted are things like , "How can I maximize my RTW?", "I managed to get over XXXXX amount of miles on my RTW" etc. They are not essentially, "Look how I can scam/screw the system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

These types of posts generally end in tears for most involved. Discretion is key, as many have noted. More muted titles, and/or burying KEY clues in threads is how FT functions best.

It would seem that many here do not believe there are active lurkers here from the airlines. I personally know without a shadow of a doubt that at least three major airlines monitor this board regularly and act on what is here.

Provocative posts belong to those who invite trouble and that is what we do not need. Often the tone reminds me of a film called "The Castle".

Share, if its an exploit then we just need to be willing to deal with not getting our miles or points as we hope. What I don't like is when someone is clearly expoiting a promo or company and they have no remorse. We frenzy like hungry piranha around a "too good to be true" promo and then whine (though some of us wine ) when the company rightly cries foul.

If a "loophole" remains open for any length of time, it is because the cost of closing it is too high. I consider it an error, if the action does not yield the result intended by the program.

Example AMEX used to have a deal with certain airlines for free upgrades. I got the miles of the upgraded class, instead of the class I bought from AMEX. Loophole or intended result? I never bothered to ask....

Life is often filled with comrimise.

So let me be fair to all -

The$59 biz fare - et all.

Call the airline - after posting on FT with a 7 day time limit till dropping the dime. (telling the airline)

THE SECRET LIST:
I'm against them -- unless I get added to them. How does one get on the special list?

One other possibility on the $59 fare:
A few years back a car dealer sold a 3 year old Cadillac for $100. The story came out the sales manager told his assitant to put the ad in the paper for $10,000. Somehow a couple of zeros were dropped. A buyer showed up and walked off with a perfectly good car for $100. It made the local news - print and TV.
Turns out the dealer does this about evey 3 or 4 years to boost PR for the company. That part didn't make the news. My uncle knows the dealership owner.

FINAL WORD:
I thank the people on this site for lots of help. PLATO has been a huge help. FewMiles and his info on the Unofficial AA guide informed me of the PLAT challenge. Now I earn 100% bonus miles on every flight.

I know what seat to ask for because of FT.

So all in all, the work here is good.

Thanks.

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TANSTAAFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

I think PremEx and others summed it up very well.

Remember: Sharing is caring.

Guess I am in the camp who does not like the "secret list."

May I add another suggestion: for those of us who can't read Flyertalk 24-7 if you find a great deal -- CALL OR E-MAIL A FRIEND!!! That way you can spread the joy of a good deal. And to make it better - once you deal a tip pass it on to another Friend!

For example:

*I would have ended up like Trojan Horse over the W Times Square $25 a night deal. Someone e-mailed me the Link and details. i was able to sign up before the deal vanished.

*Another good buddy left me a message about the PVD airfare deal. Too bad I didn't get the message in time!

Here's another piece of advice == CHECK YOUR CELL PHONE AND E-MAIL EARLY AND OFTEN!!!

Good discussion here.

I am all for secret lists, forums, etc. Why benefit thsoe who do not contribute at all?

OK, I'm not really that extreme and generally like to contribute, but anyone who thinks I say everything I know is being mighty na�ve.

FewMiles..

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CFM3RD:
[B]Life is often filled with comrimise.

One other possibility on the $59 fare:
A few years back a car dealer sold a 3 year old Cadillac for $100. The story came out the sales manager told his assitant to put the ad in the paper for $10,000. Somehow a couple of zeros were dropped. A buyer showed up and walked off with a perfectly good car for $100. It made the local news - print and TV.
Turns out the dealer does this about evey 3 or 4 years to boost PR for the company. That part didn't make the news. My uncle knows the dealership owner.
...

send me the dealers name!! If it has been "a few years" since he did that, I want to be the one to get the next $100 Cadillac!!

I was supprized to get the e-mail notification of an upgrade for a trip I was not planning. I called continental since it was a city pair that I do occaisionaly fly and they informed me that it was made by our corporate travel agency (I book on the internet for the extra 1000 miles) I have a co-worker on the opposite coast with the same name - Last week he traveled for the first time and the corporate travel agency booked his ticket under my profile.

In sent the other John Smith an e-mail letting him know he had a suprise comming when he gets to the airport.

Since Mr. Smith and I have the same first and last name an there is no middle initial in my FF account he had no problem receiving the upgrade and I received the miles.

The travel agency figured out what they did wrong and set up a new profile for the other Mr. Smith

The other Mr. Smith is flying again next week and has asked if he can use my FF number again to get the upgrade, and I receive the miles.

What are my risks,the first one was an error by a third party. However he now has my FF # since it prints on the boarding pass

Simple.

If your gonna take stuff from the store why tell the owner.?.

Its not that anyone wants to deny others on FT the pleasure of these great beneifts that other members find, far from it....but passing the info in so much detail needs some thought.

Perfect example, Ozstamp posts in all the detail his plan, by the way...he's way off...
RTW have a limit to the numer of sections, so you would never do what he says..

But lets say it did work...how long would it really last once the airlines see all these tickets coming over the desk..

what people really need to think about is what is the benefit.

The PVR deal the other week was fine, why, well it was only going to last a matter of hours anyway.

So thing like this post away...all for it!.

The more complex ticket issues that has gain need to be thought about.

Secret forums, do they exsit...well thats a secret!.

but sure, some of the members communicate in other ways, why to protect the long term of a loop.

Some people just want the glory of finding the loops and then closing them down for everyone else, same in all walks of life.

Just think about it.!



[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 08-08-2002).]

RTW have a limit to the numer of sections, so you would never do what he says..

Star-rtw have no limits of flight segments, only limits of stop-overs ... and a stopover, for international tickets, like rtw-tickets, is defined as a stop of more than 23 hours 59 minutes or the next connecting flight (which could be as long as a week away - some rare routes are only flown once a week) ...

While the Star-rtw ticket I took last time, had a limit of 15 stopovers overall, my ticket showed over 30 segments ( some of those segments, like DEN-COS, I did fly 3 times)...

As I buy (and discuss the rules, and optimize them to my favour together with my local LH-people helping me to do so and laughing) all these rtw tickets from LH themselves in Z�rich, I don't see why what we/I post here as tips about rtw-tickets should not be shared with all of you openly. LH knows very well about this, for over 3 years now already (and I share all this tips on this board openly also already for 3 years now!).

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 08-08-2002).]