How does Valumags give out so many miles? Are they going to be bankrupt before the weekend?

Who's going to start the 1.4 cents per mile version???

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Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?

Ted Stroehmann: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.

Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.

Ted Stroehmann: Right. Yes. OK, alright. I see where you're going.

Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?

Ted Stroehmann: I would go for the 7.

Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.

Ted Stroehmann: You guarantee it? That's -- how do you do that?

Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".

Ted Stroehmann: That's right. That's -- that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?

[Hitchhiker convulses]

Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.

Ted Stroehmann: That -- good point.

Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

Ted Stroehmann: Why?

Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're ****in' fired!

---

FWIW, this info I posted was obtained from the current issue of MilesLink, a Webflyer publication!

So I'm fairly sure Randy thinks it's okay, at the very least!

It seems that it IS possibly/maifestly the best choice for a BULK buy as well.

Remember the old/current standard "whats a mile worth?"

FWIW, about 0.02, or whatever you want it to be worth to you specifically in each of ones independent and eclectic circumstances!

So, while not for everyone, it is seemingly not a bad deal at all, IMHO!

And who really cares if the site ain't so pretty? Does that effect the product? Or the price? I don't think so!

Just my 0.02!

Have a great holiday everyone!

I've got mixed feelings about wading in on this thread. On one hand, I don't want to add fuel to the fire. On the other hand, I'd like to explain my position and hopefully allay some of your fears about FTers profiteering from information on FT.

When I was initially approached about this opportunity, I had to think long and hard about whether it was a worthwhile use of my time and energy. I have to admit, I was very reluctant to market the information that I had gained on Flyertalk. It seemed to go against the community spirit that exists on this board.

I rationalised my decision in several ways:

• I decided that this information was readily available and published in several places on Flyertalk. Both the MilesBuzz board and the Radisson board have extensive coverage of this promotion. We weren't keeping this knowledge from the FT community and exploiting it for personal gain.
• FT wasn't our target audience. A vast majority of Webflyer subscribers to not read FT regularly, if at all.
• Full details of how this program works were published in last week's edition of WebFlyer. Those who wanted to undertake the work involved themselves had an opportunity.
• There are people out there who don't want to invest the effort/research or don't want to risk "getting it wrong" and are happy to pay a premium for the service.
• At 1.5 cents per mile, the deal still represents excellent value. Not as excellent as if you did it yourself, but it represents a lot less work.

We discussed this with Randy before going forward with it -- both from an ethical and legal standpoint. He concluded that our decision to go ahead was the right one.

I suspect those of you who think we're making enormous profits haven't examined our true cost base. Much more than $35 to register a website, the costs we must cover are:

• Travel to coordinate the deal
• Significant investment of time (to prepare the website, identify worthy causes prepared to take large volumes of magazines and to administer the deal), for which we should be compensated. Despite how "rough and ready" the website looks, it's a pretty robust, fully-secure website. It's not a few web pages which were quickly slapped together.
• Financial risk
• Credit card fees
• Tax

When all this is taken into account, the profit margin isn't as big as it appears. Remember, we only have an 11-day window to recover all of the costs we've incurred to set this thing up.

I don't think this is quite fair. We're offering this deal to an audience who might never have noticed it before. We're covering our costs to provide the administrative service to set everything up. We're not ripping off the customer -- they're still getting a great deal. And probably a much better deal than if they never contacted us.

So while I'm sorry this deal has obviously rubbed some people the wrong way, I stand behind what we've done. We're offering an added-value service -- whether you think the value-added service is worth the price is another question. As educated consumers, you've concluded you can do it more cheaply yourself. Good for you.

On the face of it, when I pay $90 per hour to get my car fixed, I'm getting ripped off. I could certainly do it more cheaply myself. But I'm prepared to pay the premium because 1) I minimise my risk; 2) the mechanic has knowledge which, though I could acquire, I've chosen not to (because of time constraints, ability, whatever); and 3)there's some recourse if it all goes wrong. The value you place on these three elements determines whether this is a good deal for you or not.

For most FTers, working this deal is probably not too complicated or involved. By all means, do it yourself. You'll get a fantastic deal.

But if you're not an FTer, or are not comfortable doing this yourself, 1.5 cents per mile is still a great deal.

Finally, I don't feel like I'm a lurker who is stealing things off FT without giving anything in return. I hope I've contributed valuable tips to the board over time; I run the mileagerunner.com website and the Unofficial United Guide for FTers out of my own pocket with no personal benefit as my contribution to this community.

Doubtless some of you will disagree, but I've at least stated my case.

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Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide


[This message has been edited by MatthewClement (edited 12-21-2001).]

I'd say that you should be commended for your enterprising nature. It is, afterall, up to the individual whether or not they buy from you or not, at least by putting up your site (which isn't bad at all given how quickly it was done) you have given them more choice and as a consumer who can complain about that?

There are plenty of people who, unlike the more savvy FT'ers, can't get their minds around buying thousands of dollars of magazines or who just don't know about the deal. Your site is perfect for them and I have sent the link to a few people who just didn't think that the magazine thing was worth their time (and they think I am nuts for buy $5k worth of mag's, Ha! ).

So well done and Happy holidays, I hope you get lots of orders.

As Matthew's partner in crime (!), he reflects my sentiments about the decisionmaking and methodology behind Milespy.com.

On a practical level, it took me hours to figure out the registration audit trail of this promotion because of unclear and confusing links and language that infest the Radisson/GoldRewards/GoldPoints/ValueMags sites. I am amazed at the precision required (and the lack of clarity to get that precision!!) to make sure that registration is done correctly.

As always, there is nothing like the lively debate that FTers are so adept at generating.
I am hopeful that Matthew and my posts will at least offer a better FRAME for the debate.

Thanks for hearing us out.

Matthew,
I think you've stated your case very clearly and persuasively. While I wouldn't take advantage of your service myself I can see how it would be useful for other people.
Good luck to you.

Although FT members may not be your target audience, there is still a cost to FT. By attempting to profit from information found and developed here, you simply hastened the closing of the loophole. It's the age-old argument, but if everyone took your lead and tried to profit from the information here on FT, then FT would lose a lot of its utility. It violates the spirit of the board and community.

What loophole? It's clearly stated the offer ends 31Dec. No one's stopping you from going and doing the thing yourself too. It's like any other knowledge shared on FT. Knowledge leads to opprotunities, but in life, opportunities are always limited in duration. Once they're gone, too late. It's all a matter of taking advantage of them.

FewMiles..

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[ FlyerTalkers' Resources on the Web ]
[ Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage ] [ Unofficial oneworld Info Desk ]

Well, after reading their website, and knowing Steve Belkin as I do, I'd have to trust em.

Sounds like a another winning formula.

Good luck.

Dan

Three issues here, I think:

First, the best way to avoid a "loophole" being closed would be to revert to the idea of a "private list". Most people seem to agree that this would be bad thing for the FT community. Information here should be shared freely, even if it means a loophole will be closed.

Second, we are not selling this idea at the expense of FT. We haven't hidden it away or kept it to ourselves. It's been out in the open for some time now. As I've said before, we're bringing this to a new audience.

Finally, this strategy doesn't rely upon loopholes. We aren't exploiting some detail in the rules that someone overlooked. We're following every rule of all of the involved programs, both in spirit and in letter. Valuemags put this program in place to drive sales -- they've obviously made a decision that 450 points/mile is a profitable ratio for them. Their strategy has been fantastically successful. We're contributing to their success.

If this is costing Valuemags money, then the failure in the system lies with them. As far as I can tell, we've adopted exactly the behaviour that they want us to -- we're buying lots of magazines. More than they could have ever imagined!


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Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide

$750 of magazines is what, about 20 or so subscriptions? What do you guys plan on doing with all of those magazine subscriptions?

d

Unlike some accusations on this board, we aren't reselling them.

All the magazines are being donated to worthy causes -- schools, libraries, hospitals, retirement homes etc...

I can tell you this much -- I ordered $10K worth of magazines last night. Finding worthy causes willing to accept donated subscriptions is pretty time consuming. We're talking 500+ subscriptions here...


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Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide

Just some words of support for Matthew & Steve.
(I don't have any affiliation with these guys at all by the way)
However, I believe that what they're doing is a valuable service for a portion of the travelling community. May not be for everyone, but hey, no-one's forcing you to buy from them.
Note that this promo seems to be only valid for US residents, so Milespy are providing a great service to those of us who don't have a US address available etc.
Again - go for it guys and good luck !!

Go MatthewClement and Beaubo! When this is all over, would you be willing to share with us the volume of business you generated? I'm not asking for financials, just interested to hear how many people ended up using your service. Thanks.