sounds like FA eva needs to start her new career at the Clinique counter. I hope you have complained long and hard about this person.

Wow Snake,

They kinda have us over a barrel, I mean, I dunno about you guys, but if I'm on a plane I have to BE somewhere, and frankly, the hassle of getting arrested etc would probably louse up the end game schedule more than a little bit.

Unfortunately we don't have any real say so in that regard other than to vote with our money. I'd simply write AA and let them know that I spend X thousands of dollars a year on airlines, and I take great comfort in the fact that they will now see not one penny of it from me or any of my teams. Ever.

Which means, realistically, quite a few dollars over the course of a career. Something on the order of a million plus dollars in lost business, and that's a reasonable extrapolation. FAR more than it would cost them to simply apologize and remind their FA's that no clients, means no jobby-poos.

As always, YMMV. But a letter mentioning lost revenue will probably get their attention faster.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Couldn't one get arrested, presumably go to trial, be vindicated, and then turn around and sue the schmucks for malicious prosecution or something?

Not that I'm a big fan at all at sue-you-sue-me. But it seems that this is the only vernacular people know these days when it comes to responsibility and accountability.

It's an extreme example of a general problem: domestic flight attendants treating passengers like they are schoolteachers in charge of first-graders. Most flights I hear flight attendants scolding passengers over the PA system for daring to release their seatbelts while the plane is still taxiing or for making the decision to use the lavatory while the seatbelt sign is on. For some reason it has become ingrained in their culture that they are to be cops rather than serving men and women. It serves little purpose and makes the flight experience less enjoyable.

You know, Snake Pliskin, you should consider cross-posting this to the AA board. Besides our official reps, there are also various AA employees there on their personal time who can probably give you some employee-perspective.

Personally, I congratulate you on handling it well and I'm glad that the DFW Ground Supervisor handled it well. Hope you commended her at the same time you blew the whistle on the neurotic FA.

Dear Mr Snake,

I notice all this wonderful advice you're getting doesn't cost the sender a thing.

Actually I think you did exactly the right thing.

What do you gain by making them arrest you? Delays even longer and the potential for more trouble.

So all in all - I don't know anything else to do. Giving the F/A the benefit of the doubt a little bit (and I know some on FT think you should never give that -- each and every one of you has some right to trounce through this world with no one making a blunder at your expense) even so - She may have had a reallll bad day - for whatever reason.
Does that make it right? Or course not - but seeking "just compensation" sometimes costs a lot more than recieved. I admire your use of a great deal of common sense.

Of course not wearing your Braniff Airlines Shirt may help too

YOU DA MAN.

Think of the "milage" you'll get out of this story.

------------------
TANSTAAFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

A snake with paws who whimpers?

Well, I must say that hearing from the bright lights of FT is a privilege. I've been reading many of your postings (Bouncer, Plato90s, eastwest, CFM3RD and others) for quite awhile, and you are seasoned vets of sky travel & Life. Your opinions are from "those who know" and thus carry the weight of consideration.

The problem with getting arrested is just that: you're busted, you go directly to jail, you do not pass Go, you sit for hours, (and if it's a weekend you will rot until Monday when the courts re-open), you get a bologna sandwich with water, you are in a stinking cell with concrete benches to sleep on & open toilets to utilize alongside unsavory, violent dudes & lots of surly, hateful cops & jail guards. In short, it's a completely de-humanizing experience that I'd rather not go through in my life. And yup, as you may have concluded......Snake's done been there & gone through that in several places in the US of A for various idiotic younger-dumber-days activities. So I do know of which I speak. In addition, you will always have to answer "yes" when you are asked if you've ever been arrested & then you will have to explain yourself. Guilt or innocence is irrelevant re: "the question."

Contrary to our popular TV culture, you are presumed guilty in our society. After all, you HAVE been busted. The system now holds the rights to your future progress / lack of progress in Life.

Let's take a quick look at my path not chosen with FA Eva: so...busted. That means hiring a lawyer at, oh, say, $200.00 per hour. And that adds up quick, quick, quick to major coinage. You won't get it back, i.e., no refund when found innocent. It would take years of battling AA & their corp attorneys to even get on the docket, and by then...well, ya gotta consider the pros & cons, know what I mean?

I digress. I basically HAD to get to LA on time, or close to, on time. My wife's an actress / dancer & I was trekking to LA to see her on opening night at her gig at The Ahmanson Theatre (Chandler Pavilion). So, getting busted & going after the wacked-out FA & AA in court at a later date was not an option for me. I had to suck it up, and just somehow get my butt to LAX. (Hell hath no fury like a wife who cannot locate husband at important high-fluff Opening Night-yah-yah-event!) Yes, I was upset with the situation with AA & FA Eva Braun. Yes, I was angry, aggravated, felt impotent to affect my own destiny. I had to really make the huge effort to force myself to stay calm. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, eh? (To paraphrase Clint.) And sometimes that means just somehow finding the way to survive the moment & enter the fray again on another day...

I'm not saying it was easy. It was a b**ch. Very, very difficult to inhale crap from a person like FA Eva. She does not belong in the air, but rather behind the Clinique counter (se94583, right on the money with that snapshot analysis...!).

I did write a letter to the AA CEO (Carty?). I received the standard AA "these are our policies" blitherings in return. And yes, I did slather on the praise for the DFW Ground Supervisor in the context of my complaint letter to AA re: FA Eva. That Ground Supe was a cut above & had all the right moves from the PAX standpoint.

So here's my strategy, tell me what you think:

Although my favorite airline is Continental ("and on the eighth day the fliers were blessed with Gordon Bethune"), here it is......

I will fly AA until I reach the various elite statuses. I should reach the basic level of preferred status by March 2002. I will then be treated preferentially by the AA people, and I will revel in each & every upgrade & each & every free drink, etc. I will enjoy all of my free perks from the AA organization, and I will say "ahhhhhh yes" when I receive my bonus miles. I will take & take, in short, all of the benefits that I possibly can from the airline that crapped on me.

I will then cease flying AA & revert to an airline that is humane, civil, & professional in its treatment of the paying clientele. I will eventually stroll away from AA with my right hand held high in that universal gesture of disapproval ("Da Bird") & they will recieve no more of my cash.

Si?
o
No?

Best regards,

Snake Pliskin

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Only one thing endures & that is character.
- Greeley

Wow, all this over one stupid FA!

I would not blame AA as a company, but would expect something from them for this unruly employee. The pilot did what he had to do.

You appear to have done the right thing by going along with them. The power of the pilot and crew is about as absolute and without question of anything going. You can not win, at least in the short term. You only lose. Smart choices on your side.

And EVERYONE knows you do not have to turn off the cell phone until the door closes. She was having a bad day, and she is the one that should have been removed from the plane.

There is one unknown here. Did you give dirty looks, smart ... comments, or any other gestures when she came by? Be honest here.

And to the person that said by leaving the plane, you made a mistake... he obviously has not tried that move. Can you spell J A I L?

I think you conducted yourself admirably BUT, you gotta ask yourself, what would the real Snake Pliskin have done?

Most "Real Snakes" in the Northern Hemisphere at this time of year are laying low underground.

By asserting one's rights, two objectives are accomplished. The first is calling their bluff. Is a police officer really going to arrest you for talking on a cell phone when the main cabin door is open, and there are F passengers doing exactly the same thing, who are not being arrested?

The second objective is to demonstrate that we (well, some of us) are not going to allow people to push us around *in the name of safety* or *according to FAA regs*. Please understand I don't condone something like fighting an armed robber because you don't wish to lose your "right not to be robbed". I'm talking about not giving away your Constitutional right to due process (or whatever is the proper term for being arrested only by those with legal powers of arrest, sorry I'm not a lawyer).

An arrest record is not a big deal. Employment applications cannot ask you if you've been arrested. They can ask if you've been convicted of a felony. Come on, this isn't China, where being arrested and being convicted are basically the same thing.

I'll gladly take a day in jail followed by my Constitutional right to a fair trial over a trampling of my rights by some FA with a bad hair day. I know jail isn't fun & games; I have been in jail as a dumb 18 yr old (though only one night, and charges were dropped by prosecution, so there! ). But there are some things I will not compromise, and my Constitutional rights are one of them.

HAH! The "real" Snake Pliskin would have ...........wait, that's why it's a movie!

In reality, I absolutely did crank FA Eva Braun a look of severe annoyance, mixed with a disgusted-ya-gotta-be-kiddin-me-lighten-up-honey-you're-lame when I shelved the cell phone. I believe that what sent FA Eva into ballistic orbit was my comment / question as to why are we coach people shut down when the main cabin door is still open & while the FC folks are still yammering merrily away into their phones. Her response was in the mode of "how dare you question me Mister Man / little boy" and then she proceeded to call in the shock troops. She absolutely was abusive of her authority.

Maybe she was listening to too much Destiny's Child & her man-hater thing was in full bloom? Maybe she had a rough outing with her sig other? Maybe she had a dying family member? Maybe it was that universal catch-all...PMS! Just kidding. Sort of. It's anyone's guess, but I was not the cause of her stress, I was merely her flashpoint.

Who knows what FA Eva was going through that day, and frankly who cares?

If FA Eva can't control her own "issues" long enough to be a professional while she's on the job, she belongs behind the Clinique counter at Duty Free. She shouldn't be in a position whereby she is permitted influence over others. She's a menace.

Sure, some of the pax can be a chore for the FA's at times. But the vast majority of us are polite, respectful, and helpful to the crews. Besides, being a FA is essentially a service position when you cut it down to the essentials. And anyone in the service business will tell you that you're gonna encounter your share of bonehead behavior from the clients. Comes with the territory. If she was fed up, or something like that, she needs to find another line of work.

How many times have we seen nasty, condescending looks from FA's when you ask for a bit more cola or water? Many people have encountered surly FA's, unpleasant ground personnel, & others who aren't the cutesy photogenic professionals on the airline television ads. The airline business tends to blame the traveling public for their own bad attitudes. Puuuleeease.

Some of the 'tudes in the FA zone make me sometimes think I'm traveling Amtrak in the sky.

Anyway, for me...'nuff said.


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Only one thing endures & that is character.
- Greeley

JS, I hear you loud & clear. And I agree with you re: the standing up for one's rights.

The caveat is that, although this may not be China, as you put it, it's still very much "guilty 'till proven innocent" & the onus is on you to hire a lawyer, pay out buckets of money and battle for quite awhile to clear your name / win the case. And any arrest on an airplane is, I believe, definitely a federal crime. Good luck explaining that one away to an employer or to the media or to the feds when you apply for a government security clearance.

We've already seen a tremendous erosion of our civil rights post-Sept 11. Searches, gropes, probes, pat-downs, et.al. all in the name of "the greater good of society." FT people have sent numerous reports of low-paid security donkeys aggressively demeaning & de-humanizing what the donkeys perceive as "rich folk" - it's their moment to avenge perceived slights & to allow their small-minded jealousies & vengefulness to assert itself on the traveling public.

In these times in this country I believe that anything a FA / crewperson states will be taken by the cops / authorities as "the way it went down." Maybe later, when the dust settles, you'd see reason & rational behavior from the authorities, but not in the short term run.

So, yes, I agree with you, but I hedge my bet by looking around at the current climate.

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Only one thing endures & that is character.
- Greeley

This is obviously an outrageous abuse of authority. And anyone who has seen my countless previous posts about "security" knows how I feel about the kabuki theater that has been taking place at airport checkpoints for 3 months now. But let's be real clear about one thing: The security people, the airlines and the government absolutely will stick together on this, even when the passenger is right. The "authorities" believe that any lack of solidarity will demoralize everyone involved in the process, and they are afraid to let that happen.

The FA in this case probably said something to the captain like, "This passenger seems to have an attitude, and I don't feel comfortable having to deal with him in the sky where reinforcements are far away." The captain probably thought to himself that she was overreacting, but what could he do? He had to support her, so he threw Snake Pliskin off the plane.

Snake could have refused to leave voluntarily, in which case he would surely have been arrested for refusing to obey a crew member, and no court in the land would back him today -- maybe a year from now, but not now. It's analogous to laws requiring you to obey a police officer, even when he is wrong. You obey NOW and protest later. That's what Snake did, and I support him all the way.

Pick your battles. On the other hand, the airlines will certainly go bankrupt if this continues indefinitely. Even inveterate frequent flyers like me will not willingly endure this crap forever.

Bruce