I disagree. Paying more or less only changes your cost, not the value of what you acquired.

Look at it like this. You buy a house and pay $300,000. Now the house may be worth $200,000, $400,000 or $600,000. But the real value of the house is not changed by what you paid. It's based on what another informed buyer would pay. It's the same with miles.

You don't change the value of something by paying more or less for it. Its value is its value. All you do by paying more is you made a worse deal.

I wonder if that means MBNA is down to 0% now. I'll have to give them a call...

I think we're just going on different paths to the same concept. When I use the term improvement, I'm doing so from the perspective of someone who currently uses a 3% mileage card. Such a person might ask "would I improve my situation if I used the 1% non-mileage card?" To answer that question, that person would need to determine how much the miles are worth to him/her. If the miles are worth more than 2 cents per, this would be a detrimental move. If less than 2 cents, using the 1% card is an improvement. (Personally, I value the miles at about 1.5 cents, so using the 1% card would be a slight improvement for me).

I agree that this person would not change the value of the miles by paying more or less.

As per the angst of the OP:

I know that no matter how many people participate in something, all deals we see in FT eventually come to an end. And what really stinks is not so much the fact that it changed, but HOW it changed!

The culprit is those marketing persons working at one of the 3 entities with which one transfers the miles and points who decided to just STOP the transfer abilities cold turkey. I would Cc a letter to Amtrak and United (and maybe CO) right now, and get as many people on board as possible to demand an explaination as to why they pulled the plug with the unexpected speed of a Tsunami!

Otherwise, the jerks in this business will simply continue to pull this sort of thing over and over again and we will be screwed in the next gig!...


As the famed ski film producer Warren Miller once said, "Do it--and do it now, or you'll be one year older when you do!

MM

Amtrak pulled the same no-notice act about 18 months ago when they limited transfers to airlines to an amount capped each year. Not much of a stink was made then, maybe because folks were washing hundreds of thousands of miles from Amex to UA and Amtrak's action was viewed as limiting an abuse. Having gotten away with its "letter of the law" action then, Amtrak pulled it again, this time on a core benefit.

The right and willingness of these programs to take this sort of action is one reason I laugh at high valuations of FF miles. It is also part of why I am much more concerned about UA and the ultimate fate of MP miles than I was 3 or 4 months ago. The bankruptcy has taken a very ugly turn with some pilots having their pensions slashed by 60% or more. If you look at the people around the table with an interest in UA, (employees, unions, stockholders, cities, suppliers, creditors and customers) just about all of them have taken a big haircut except for, perhaps, Bank One and the MP program.

Are we next?

...and this is precisely why I often laugh at/challenge all the over zealous ethicists that lurk throughout this forum when it comes to issues such as schemes and loopholes we find, selling and trading miles, gift cards, and other issues that seem to get so many into a tiz just for the sake of playing the devil's advocate.

Miles, unlike money, are akin to the stock market of say, the late 1920s. And until there are fair and equal regulations that help both business and the consumer, I am afriad it is fair game to be a good FTer and reao whatever i can as many ways as I can while still trying to be somewhat civil to my fellow poster.

That said, I am glad for those who got thru with their UA transfers and I still think everyone else has every right to fight them by writing in and demanding some sort of repayment or something.

MM

Forgive the drift on mileage value, but I'm about to depart for New Zealand in AZ first class. The coach fare on the flights was about $2,300 RT. I used 120k United miles for the trip. I'd never see a premuim cabin were it not for miles. What these miles are worth to you depends on how you use them.

Amtrak to United was great while it lasted, but don't sweat it -- there will always be more mileage opportunities.

Sad to see this one end.

It seemed like the only way to actually get some return on [N]One Pass miles.

You know.. Amtrak points are valuable in their own way, despite the disappearance of the United transfer option.

20k points for a one-way trip in a First Class bedroom from LA to Seattle, meals included... 2500 points for a one-way unreserved ticket on Acela Regional.. convenient for us Northeastern travelers. The list goes on..

It's not all bad. Think about it.

My own prediction is that the really nasty stuff on devaluations will happen in an industrywide wave around, oh, about the time the first baby boomers start to retire, perhaps just before. There are probably quite a few people sitting on fat mileage balances who figured on using them in retirement, when they would have time.

I am starting to think you're right, but the start date may be sooner than you think. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the UA bankruptcy has been far more brutal than I ever anticipated and it ain't over yet, folks. I could see UA coming out with a "New, Improved" Mileage Plus that whacks the heck out of certain benefits. And if they did, we might see Delta, AA and the rest, rather than run in to grab UA's customers, go along and match the cutbacks to try to save their own hides. This industry is in bad shape and none of them are really in good shape.

I have no actual basis for thinking this, other than my own suspicions. But it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Versus 20K miles for a one-way trip in First Class (actually 40K R/T) and not having to spend 36 hours on a train? No comparison in my mind. If there were a high-speed rail system (I love the Shinkansen), and if Amtrak got some lessons in customer service, I might consider it, but until then short trips are about all I can handle. And for 90% of the country (pretty much everywhere between the coasts), I don't think Amtrak is even good for that.

Amtrak and United BOTH knew about this in time to announce it before it happened. Their failure to do so was unconscionable. This gives me a lasting ill will toward both programs. I had recently made United my ''second choice'' airline after NW. No more! I have less trust of them than any other airline ff program as a result of them blindsiding their members on this.
Extremely poor consumer service for both of them.

I don't necessarily blame them for the change itself. Partnership arrangements do change from time to time. But not announcing it ahead of time, like other carriers routinely do, is another matter entirely!
These scoundrels do not deserve our business.

The point is not about speed between destinations. It's the experience, the views from the ground level, and so on.

Customer service? what's that!

that's why I burn up miles when I get em, scam and scheme whenever I can, and basically have no loyalty to any of these airlines.

MM